So, a Feeder and a UCR can do it. However both TSP and TCB have different material realities to our own. We can not copy what other regions do when those regions are both mechanically different and materially different. As a matter of fact, the regions closest to our own in material reality and mechanical reality are Balder and Osiris, both of which do not elect their Ministers, to my knowledge.
TSP and TCB had to start from somewhere, and they are not so different. It is absurd to argue this is impossible, when it has already been done here, even if you dismiss that out of hand.
Nor do they seem to have the same issues that plague us. Furthermore, the prior governments which you point to as examples to why we should do this all fell. The Pre-PRL government fell to the PRL. The Humane Republic fell to the Celestial Union, which fell to the Civil War. None of the Lazarene Governments you point to as having elected Ministers have survived.
That is very much switching the goal posts, as by that same level of logic, you could argue that this regime won't survive because it has no elected Ministers. I don't feel the need to argue that, and I think arguing that the civil war was caused by electing Ministers, or that somehow electing Ministers is anyway responsible for the fall of Lazarus, is too silly to reasonably respond to. Lazarus isn't going to collapse either way.
As for my other point, my wording was very poor and muddied my point, I will admit. However, my point was very much misconstrued by you.
I don't think you should be arguing for misconstrued your point, when in your point you went to imply that I meant that we should base our region entirely on the HRL/CU, rather than it just being one example related to Lazarus, in the past, and to treat this the same as electing a Delegate.
To better explain what I meant, it is that in the Humane Republic of Lazarus and the Celestial Union the Head of Government frequently failed to serve a full term. Yes, the Head of Government was also the Delegate under both of those governments, however none-the-less the Head of Government frequently failed to last their full term, which lead to frequent churn and instability. However, even with that the Humane Republic and the Celestial Union fell to the same inactivity that befalls us now and partially lead to this question.
Again, this is bringing up the Prime Minister, as if it is the same as being a Minister. It is not, as the PM has way more collective responsibilities. I really don't see the need for you to keep driving this point, as you have no evidence that there was a chronic problem with the activity of Ministers, only the Delegacy. It cannot be compared, as the Delegate of Lazarus had the responsibilities of the Prime Minister and the Delegate in one position.
However, I will not sit here and say that it is impossible elections would cause activity. It is very well possible that such occurs, however the activity it causes is Political activity, and I have to ask whether or not we truly want the expansion of politics within Lazarus, and all of the issues that come with it. Politics can bring activity, sure. However such activity attracts those wanting power for their own nefarious reasons, and it invites and breed needless toxicity, infighting, and exclusion. I have to ask if we -- as Lazarenes -- truly want or need such things.
Appointments doesn't create any less toxicity, as it relies upon you being favored by a Prime Minister to fulfill a role, and you mentioned Balder earlier, which isn't known for sharing around the power a lot.
I honestly have to ask why you keep on bringing this up after every issue. Touting it as a panacea to solve our issues,
I think you are personally unwilling to even discuss this, which is the problem.
This debate began from the discussion of establishing Ministeries in law, something that was positive generally, and only after electing Ministers was put as a possibility was this thread created.
How can you expect the region to improve in terms of toxicity, if your response to every debate is to just slam the author of a proposal you don't like with an ad hominem like attack, when you criticize the proposer and not the proposal.
I don't even know where to start on that, as folks have asked specifically for myself, if not Tubbs to get politically involved, and state a point of view, even if the region disagrees, and now you are literally arguing on the Assembly floor I have no right, as a citizen to bring an issue up, as it undermines regional stability.
That is the worst way to argue against a debate, as it is basically advocacy for censorship of ideas, no matter how bad or good those ideas might be.
pointing to the past while also ignoring that those systems are in the past because they failed. I have to ask if we really need to go: "This hasn't worked the past 3 times, but if we just believe harder, it will work for sure this time!"
You haven't pointed to anything, as you've just mis-characterized electing Ministers as being the same as electing Delegates and Prime Ministers.
Why are some so insistent to do this, to bash our collective head against the same wall over and over and expect the same action to give us different results when all we have effectively done is repaint the wall. It has been said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to yield different results, and I have to question whether or not we will collectively be insane or not.
I think that is more your opinion, as I don't see Lazarus really bashing itself against the wall. Whether Ministers are elected or appointed, the region doesn't implode as a result.
I don't appreciate that this proposal is being sullied as being the end of the world, when it clearly isn't, regardless of whether it passes or fails.
