[Discussion] Delegate Recall

[The Pharcyde]

Fellow shareholders,

I propose a recall of Treadwellia, Chief Executive Officer of Lazarus.

I am deeply unsatisfied with the state of internal affairs in Lazarus, and lack confidence that the change I want to see is realizable under Treadwellia's leadership. In the past couple months, I have witnessed many arguments about the direction the region is headed in, but very few solutions. The few ideas we have trudge forward at a snail's pace.

I do not blame Treadwellia for our problems, but I do hold him accountable for our failure to find solutions. In a corporation, accountability, as well as visionary leadership, starts at the top. Lazarus is failing and has been for awhile now, in my opinion. The CEO is responsible for changing our direction, and I haven't seen any reason to believe change is on the way. I think it's time for something different.

With that said, I hope it's really obvious that I respect Tubbius, and am only comfortable proposing this recall because he's created a culture where all nations, regardless of their status, are made to feel important and free to voice their opinions in the democratic process. Nothing about this is personal, and I ultimately hope we can get serious talking about where Lazarus is headed moving forward.

 

[The Pharcyde]

What we've been doing hasn't been enough.

 

[McChimp]

I do not support this in the slightest. Saying that you don't blame him but are going to hold him accountable nonetheless is nonsensical. Lazarus is exploring solutions to problems as we speak and will no doubt be implementing them soon. This is not a solution; it serves only to sow distrust.

 

[Legalist Zombal]

You don't blame him for the issues yet you want to take action by punishing him and removing him? Laughable.

No support from me either.

 

[Ryccia]

I concur with McChimp. I refuse to support this measure.

 

[treadwellia]

As current Delegate, I have stated numerous times that I wholeheartedly support open communication regarding the concerns being raised in Lazarus. I have seen volatile, explosive discussions in the Meeting Room channel on the Discord regarding people's desires for more political power and/or democratic government--discussions that have usually happened in the night when I am asleep, given, I assume, a difference in time zones (I am in the Eastern U.S., for what that's worth). I have also seen accusations like this one that state that I have done little to progress Lazarus in the last 99 days (93 days of actual official service with 6 days of building Endorsement support prior to officially taking power).

Anyone has the option to communicate with me personally through Telegrams in game or direct messages on Discord. Of the top fifty direct message tabs in my Discord account, which cover messages from April to the present, about half a dozen are real-life friends; several are representatives of Lazarus, other regions, or combined messages with various members of both categories; and the rest are various individuals who have seen the need to message me at various points--none in a negative light. Even particular individuals with whom I've had somewhat shaky relationships due to their occasional public pushes for radical change in government have been polite in directly messaging me their suggestions for potential improvement. The biggest piece of advice that I received was to communicate even more openly with others about goings-on. That was from a month ago, almost to the day.

So, with that advice taken (from Cormac, no less), I wish to state that a lot of what the Delegate--whether me, Imkiville before me, or whoever else is over Lazarus in the past or the future--happens in the background. A great deal of it is routine, daily work, such as accepting citizenship applications, maintaining communications with other regional heads, brokering treaties between regions, and answering people's concerns through interviews and simple questions. The big, flashy moments, the surges of activity. . . those might be what many think they want to see, but that is not the daily life of the Delegate, which is a very unforgiving grind at times with little public notifications of the depth of the events.

Anyone who wants to know more has always had the opportunity to contact me and may certainly have that opportunity from this moment forward.

I will admit that this proposal, while certainly within Pharcyde's rights to make, feels sudden and unexpected. I have received no directly messaged, personal communications about the need to act "or else" from anyone within my service as Delegate. To that end, should this proposal proceed beyond this thread and to whatever stage follows regarding it, I believe that the citizens of Lazarus will act as their own judgments dictate. Should that result in my removal from the Delegate's position, then that is the case, and Lazarus will theoretically find someone it deems better suited to the post. Should that not result in said removal, then I hold neither Pharcyde nor any others who post in agreement with this request in any ill will or malice, and, yes, I will still continue to invite any and all to communicate with me openly as each person sees fit.

As it stands, I do not feel that I can support such a move at this time, on a personal and professional level (well, as professional as being Delegate of a game-created region of NationStates can get).

-- Treadwellia, current Delegate of Lazarus, July 6, 2019

 

[joWhatup]

Absolutely no support. We are looking for solutions to the problems you speak of, and ditching the delegate who's been trying his best to help is not a solution. Saying you don't blame him but will hold him responsible is nonsensical.

Absolutely against.

 

[New Rogernomics]

This is a really terrible idea given the chaos and disruption this would cause.

Losing one Delegate within a short span of time was enough. 

To be fairly honest were it to gather the votes to pass, it would make it hard for a lot of citizens to take such a vote seriously or even find the votes legitimately gathered, as to gather the sufficient votes you'd have to discord DM and telegram in a wild frenzy - or to have gathered them beforehand which doesn't look good either. 

Definitely against this.

Edit: As for actual changes, they already are proposed by both Atlantica, others, and myself, and historically, rushing changes has never worked well in Lazarus i.e. such as with the Celestial Union.

 

[The Pharcyde]

You don't blame him for the issues yet you want to take action by punishing him and removing him? Laughable.

No support from me either.

Snip

 

[Killer Kitty]

Also opposed. Most of the "arguments about the direction the region is headed in" spawned solely from Cormac, who has since left. He wasn't a happy camper in a lot of ways.

 

[Constie]

I think Tubbius' willingness to hear everyone's point of view is one of his greatest strengths, and I think he's trying to spur us all on to understand our own projects. So with that, I don't support this recall.

 

[Imaginary]

I'm really glad you felt comfortable bringing this subject to your fellow shareholders Pharcyde. As the person who proposed the recall of Imki a few days before she fortunately came back online and resigned herself, I know that it can feel very difficult to do what you think you should in this type of situation. "Will people ever take me seriously again?" or "Will the delegate think I have something against them?" are questions that I'm sure you must have asked yourself.

But this is a democratic monarchy-ish region, and if you sincerely believe that Treadwellia is not the best option as delegate I have great respect for you for saying so and acting to make a change. I have seen you raising the concerns you have made in this thread in the Board Meeting Room before and don't intend to treat this discussion in my response as some kind of shot from blue cheese, because it's evidently something you've been considering for some time.

Those who concern themselves with what's good for the region rather than to simply show support for those in power at the moment are the most valuable kind of player. If you are that type of player, thank you very much for participating in this region and don't take to heart anyone saying you're ridiculous! <3

...If you're just trying to stir up trouble then -.-

--

Regardless. =P I don't hold the same opinion. As Canton touched on above, Treadwellia's style of leadership lets those who would like to do something in the region have a stable base to push off from. For example, joW is able to use his position in government to form the military force that protects us currently, in which players can learn to point, trigger, and become educated about different facets of r/d. I've been able to launch the Laz OS program which has boosted the RMB from being less active than that of Osiris to over 4 times as active and 8 times that of Balder (on average over the last 30 days). Ryccia has organized an innovative new ambassador system and is currently in the process of writing our next report (in a much more timely manner than I ever did I might add lol.. love you ry ;-.

So I don't think this is a failing region, and I don't think removing Treadwellia and replacing him with NR, who has said he doesn't want to be delegate, would make Lazarus a more awesome region.

What would you like to see happening here that isn't happening? If it's a neat idea that we agree will help the region, then let's do it! --although I'm on a hiking vacation in Switzerland right now so it'll have to wait a month for my help. >.< But others might be interested as well.

 

[New Rogernomics]

A recall in the case of a political position is impeachment, when it concerns negligence or poor conduct as an executive, which is by all means a punishment.
The line is generally very narrow between legitimate campaigning and voter coercion, especially when it comes to a less open format and more of a private DM or telegram. To give more RL context, it is the equivalent of door knocking at the extreme or sending a campaign email to a voter.

If you were to knock on most of the doors and say Delegate X was terrible, and get them all to vote against Delegate X, that would be one thing. It is another to thing to recently join as a new citizen, and campaign against Delegate X, when you are still a citizen of other regions. It makes other players who have been in the region a while uneasy, hence my earlier comment on why this would be taken badly - whether the campaign succeeds or fails.

So I don't think this is a failing region, and I don't think removing Treadwellia and replacing him with NR, who has said he doesn't want to be delegate, would make Lazarus a more awesome region.

I would be fine with being Delegate, though that doesn't mean I strive to replace whoever the current Delegate might be. You could argue that it being a difficult security situation makes the region lose sight of whether the Delegate is good or not, but you could also argue the reverse that a difficult security situation requires we support the current Delegate - until we have a stable situation at least after Imki has left.

Though, I generally think the Delegacy as a Security Position and head of state might be better for Lazarus, than pushing that it has to be heavily executive - as it is entirely possible to have the best of both when it comes to Lazarus. Plenty of Democracy, but also a stable Delegacy that is far more impervious to future coups.

 

[The Pharcyde]

A recall in the case of a political position is impeachment, when it concerns negligence or poor conduct as an executive, which is by all means a punishment.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Although that's true in real life, I think it's a terrible way of viewing a recall on NationStates.

Not so at all. If you remove someone from their political position for negligence or poor conduct, effectively you are removing them from political office, and effectively making clear to them that they aren't valued in or don't deserve that position.

That can't be considered anything else but a punishment, even if it is done by the best of intentions.

It is not at all like removing someone near the end of every 5-6 months or more, because as it stands Treadwellia has only allegedly been unsuitable in opinion, which is by no means a severe offense.

If Treadwellia had done something grossly wrong, then I could see reason for a recall.

Historically though in the Humane Republic of Lazarus and the Celestial Union of Lazarus, both heavily democratic regions, recalls weren't used for inactivity unless they truly were inactive and 'unsuitable' i.e. CTE'ing and not participating at all.

So I don't think we should set a precedent of recalling just because we don't like how someone might perform, and instead use recalls for severe offenses.

 

[Ryccia]

A leader cannot exist without their people's effort, and the people cannot be organized without a good leader. A good leader acknowledges that he alone is not the ultimate provider of reason, and thus may seek others to hear and speak to.

Building our region and making it active is everyone's responsibility, not just his. We cannot shoulder the weight on one person alone. We are currently attempting to find solutions as a team, together. His leadership is competent, for we are all included in the push to create a better Lazarus. He listens to all of us, not just his mind.

I have seen his leadership behind closed doors, and, as Treadwellia has more or less stated, even we may not entirely know what he must do daily. It can be crucial, but unnoticed. Whenever an issue arises, all of us in the government discuss it. He hears our points of view, and ultimately decides on a course of action. That is an example of good leadership: to not rush into things, to be patient in decision, to be mature and consider all the perspectives that one may encounter. Where he sees conflict and discord, he attempts to keep the peace. He is a good role model for the rest of the region to follow.

Communities are always a communal effort, hence the name. We must all collaborate, and you cannot get rid of this inactivity just by discarding one person. Even if you recall a million Delegates in rapid succession, you shall still not get rid of what plagues our region. This move, as a result, can only be a punishment, and it is my opinion that Tubbius deserves not such a sanction. He has done nothing to merit a sacking.

I shall like to state that I do commend you for being brave enough to bring your opinion forth, even if it is unpopular. I respect that. And more the reason to praise Tubbius for his positive, open and caring attitude for the region. My opinion is that I do not support this recall. Perhaps I have not been here as long as others here, but I believe I have been here long enough to notice that Tubbius is a good Delegate.

 

[Wymondham]

I am firmly against such a recall for broadly the same reasons given by many others in this thread

 

[The Pharcyde]

Although that's true in real life, I think it's a terrible way of viewing a recall on NationStates.

Not so at all. If you remove someone from their political position for negligence or poor conduct, effectively you are removing them from political office, and effectively making clear to them that they aren't valued in or don't deserve that position.

That can't be considered anything else but a punishment, even if it is done by the best of intentions.

A punishment is "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." I do not think Tubbius has committed a offense. He hasn't been negligent or conducted himself poorly, and I didn't imply such. On the contrary, I think he is diligent and upstanding.

 

[The Pharcyde]

I withdraw this proposal.

 

[treadwellia]

I appreciate your willingness to be so open and direct about the concerns as you saw them, standing up with your citizen's right to engage with the political process of Lazarus. Like I said here, I don't 100% agree with the assertions raised here, but I certainly agree with your willingness to stand up for your beliefs in the situation. Being willing and able to engage in honest communication is what makes Lazarus operate as it does, so thank you. Thank you for being willing to engage with others in Lazarus in a largely peaceful and diplomatic fashion, and I wish you well in future endeavors.