[Discussion] Off-site Property Administration Amendment (September 2018)

[Amerion]

Relevant subsections of the Mandate

There is a loophole which I think we should consider closing, with language that should be tightened.

As it stands, administrators and moderators of off-site property are not explicitly required to be citizens. There is an implication that they should hold citizenship in VIII (1). However, as the Mandate specifically regulates citizenship requirements for government officials, it is only logical for off-site administration to be held to the same exact standard as well, considering their function.

TLDR: an appropriate remedy for this issue would be to amend the relevant sections, stipulating that administrators and moderators are to hold citizenship status.

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[align=center][size=medium]Off-site Property Administration Amendment (September 2018)[/size]

Proposed By: Amerion[/align]
[align=left]Preamble

This amendment of the Twelfth Mandate of Lazarus necessitates members of off-site property administration to maintain citizenship.

Section 1. Amendment of Article VII

(1) After subsection 1, insert:

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[TempestShadow]

Sounds good to me, though I can't help but imagine what would happen if a root of here or the Discord were to lose citizenship, given the inability to appeal to a higher power to strip their powers

 

[Harmoneia]

This.

It's a good amendment ideally, but realistically, Imki owns both servers. In a hypothetical scenario of the far future where she loses citizenship, that would require us to make new forums and discord server, which is just not realistic.

Perhaps the root should be given automatic citizenship, then in order for you to become an off-site administrator, you must be a citizen first, and loss of citizenship (due to CTE) will result in a warning which if not heeded.

That, or we subject all removals of admin staff to an Assembly vote, which is a little bit more realistic than automatic removals.

 

[Harmoneia]

Sounds good to me, though I can't help but imagine what would happen if a root of here or the Discord were to lose citizenship, given the inability to appeal to a higher power to strip their powers

This.

It's a good amendment ideally, but realistically, Imki owns both servers. In a hypothetical scenario of the far future where she loses citizenship, that would require us to make new forums and discord server, which is just not realistic.

Perhaps the root should be given automatic citizenship, then in order for you to become an off-site administrator, you must be a citizen first, and loss of citizenship (due to CTE) will result in a warning which if not heeded.

That, or we subject all removals of admin staff to an Assembly vote, which is a little bit more realistic than automatic removals.

 

[TempestShadow]

Perhaps just the roots have the escape clause of sorts, though we should obviously push that they maintain citizenship as such.

 

[Amerion]

Sounds good to me, though I can't help but imagine what would happen if a root of here or the Discord were to lose citizenship, given the inability to appeal to a higher power to strip their powers

...

It's a good amendment ideally, but realistically, Imki owns both servers. In a hypothetical scenario of the far future where she loses citizenship, that would require us to make new forums and discord server, which is just not realistic.

Perhaps the root should be given automatic citizenship, then in order for you to become an off-site administrator, you must be a citizen first, and loss of citizenship (due to CTE) will result in a warning which if not heeded.

That, or we subject all removals of admin staff to an Assembly vote, which is a little bit more realistic than automatic removals.

[A wild Harmoneia appears. Amerion uses a Master ball]

On this note, Imki would only lose citizenship is she voluntarily relocates or ceases to exist; in which case, with her as root administrator, would cause greater problems than any legislation here could resolve. It would necessitate a reorganisation/relocation of our public infrastructure. And as the only (likely) requirement to maintain citizenship is to maintain a nation in Lazarus, it goes back to the previous point.

As to your suggestion, I think it is logical. We could stipulate in the Citizenship Act that Imki, by virtue of being the root administrator, is granted citizenship in perpetuity. Would such a provision be acceptable?

 

[TempestShadow]

I think it would be, unless Imki objects to such, given she'd be the one most affected by such.

 

[Amerion]

I think it would be, unless Imki objects to such, given she'd be the one most affected by such.

 

[TempestShadow]

I think it would be, unless Imki objects to such, given she'd be the one most affected by such.

Neither can I, but I figured it would be good to make sure anyways

 

[Legalist Zombal]

Looks fine to me, maybe we should have the roots shared between the WAD, VD and then one or two trusted "admins"? Basically have like Senior Admins(only like 2 people or so) that actually do most of the admining but Imki still hold the Root account so that nobody can pull weird crap in the future with some cit having root or whatever

But it looks good either way!

 

[New Rogernomics]

Only problem I could see with this is what if a few in the assembly hypothetically decided to remove an admin? On what grounds should an admin be removed? Is a trial required to remove citizenship and then admin? A super majority vote?

 

[TempestShadow]

Looks fine to me, maybe we should have the roots shared between the WAD, VD and then one or two trusted "admins"? Basically have like Senior Admins(only like 2 people or so) that actually do most of the admining but Imki still hold the Root account so that nobody can pull weird crap in the future with some cit having root or whatever

But it looks good either way!

I'd prefer if we limit access to the Root account as much as possible.

 

[Ryccia]

Perhaps have the CLS, on the occasion that the Root Admin has lost citizenship, becomes inactive, or something equally devastating, on deciding on a new forum, with a new Root Admin, or keeping the forum for some reason?

Or we could perhaps allow Root Admins to be non-citizens, as long as they abide by Lazarene law and such, and leave the door open for either the CLS or the Assembly to decide if that is an issue and move to a new forum, or allow the Root Admin and their forum to remain.

 

[Amerion]

Looks fine to me, maybe we should have the roots shared between the WAD, VD and then one or two trusted "admins"? Basically have like Senior Admins(only like 2 people or so) that actually do most of the admining but Imki still hold the Root account so that nobody can pull weird crap in the future with some cit having root or whatever

But it looks good either way!

Only problem I could see with this is what if a few in the assembly hypothetically decided to remove an admin? On what grounds should an admin be removed? Is a trial required to remove citizenship and then admin? A super majority vote?

Perhaps have the CLS, on the occasion that the Root Admin has lost citizenship, becomes inactive, or something equally devastating, on deciding on a new forum, with a new Root Admin, or keeping the forum for some reason?

Or we could perhaps allow Root Admins to be non-citizens, as long as they abide by Lazarene law and such, and leave the door open for either the CLS or the Assembly to decide if that is an issue and move to a new forum, or allow the Root Admin and their forum to remain.

Based on the discussions on Discord, I think the consensus is to not make allowance for the root account holder but rather give warning to every person who is at risk of losing their citizenship due to inactivity.

 

[Amerion]

Just an additional note:

I have amended the language so as to only impact the administration team. As Sheep pointed out on Discord, moderation teams should be exempt from citizenship criteria as members may be non-citizens during joint festivals.

 

[Amerion]

I move for a vote on this amendment

 

[McChimp]

Before this goes to vote, and I appreciate I'm a little late, I probably ought to say that I'm not sure this is necessary.

The Mandate already requires that admins be citizens (at least when they are appointed). Given the OOC nature of the position I see no reason to legislate too deeply regarding their citizenship: does it really need to be written that the root admin should maintain an active and involved team? If it does, would that not be better written as an admin policy?

 

[McChimp]

I second the motion, though.

 

[Amerion]

Before this goes to vote, and I appreciate I'm a little late, I probably ought to say that I'm not sure this is necessary.

The Mandate already requires that admins be citizens (at least when they are appointed). Given the OOC nature of the position I see no reason to legislate too deeply regarding their citizenship: does it really need to be written that the root admin should maintain an active and involved team? If it does, would that not be better written as an admin policy?

The Mandate implies that administrators hold citizenship status but it does not explicitly state the requirement. Comparatively, it has four subsections going into detail on the citizenship requirements of government officials. I understand that the two groups of people are not exactly comparable in terms of importance to our public infrastructure, but I also see no issue with clarifying what is a logical necessity. If a person is to be entrusted with access to Lazarus' forum and Discord control panels then it only stands to reason that they should be citizens of Lazarus. The alternative is simply nonsensical.

I am in full agreement with you that this Assembly should not legislate on admin policy (although I believe that the community would be well served if and when the administration team works with the general public in formulating its policy), however, I think this basic requirement does not amount to a restraint on the team.

As to your point of whether the root admin should maintain an active and involved team, I do not believe this amendment necessitates that; only that the root not lose (her) citizenship; something which I do not think is a possibility (or, if it is, will be an issue we shall have to address further down the track). I expect that Imki would transfer the root if she finishes with NationStates.

 

[McChimp]

As to your point of whether the root admin should maintain an active and involved team

But presumably the point, ultimately, of an admin citizenship requirement would be to ensure that all admins are active and involved. Why bother if not to achieve that? And could that not be more neatly achieved by an admin policy without cluttering up the constitution too much with an OOC institution?