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[Discussion] New Themes
#1
Lightbulb 
Lazarus seems to have caught theme-fever again, with a bunch of people expressing dissatisfaction at the dead end they think Lazarus has reached with the Corporation theme. This megathread (I hope it's not too mega!) is meant to be the place to put forward your proposals on a possible new theme-- or lack thereof -- which could be more permanent than the others we've had so far and could help drive the expression of a renewed Lazarene culture. 

I'll try and keep a record of theme proposals. Please mark official ones clearly so I know which ones to include, and preferably provide a reasoning behind why your proposal would be best. If you like a theme proposal, please like the post.

Note: "No theme" and "Lazarus theme" and "LazCorp theme" are perfectly acceptable, just please explain why you think they are best. This thread is not meant to force us into a new theme (I myself am still unsure about whether adopting a new theme would be a good idea), but rather to make sure all the options are laid out in as orderly of a fashion as possible.
#2
I'm going to go ahead and put the vampire theme down, seeing as it did seem to have broad support. There's all kinds of imagery you can use, Gothic architecture, the whole classic horror motif. On top of that there's an associated feudal political structure-the delegate could be the Countess, her cabinet could be Viscounts. I think the whole undead thing also links in rather nicely with Lazarus being resurrected and nations being raised from the boneyard. I don't think our theme necessarily has to be light. Plenty of stuff that's grim is popular.
#3
As I see it, for a theme to be able to stick around and be successful, it needs to be three things:
  1. It needs to be based on a commonly recognized cultural trope that is familiar to anyone, whether they've played NS or not, whether they watch certain shows or not, whether they like to read Wikipedia or not, and so on, so it’s easy to catch onto and easy to be involved in. 
  2. It needs to have a lot of already-existing material to draw from and be easily extensible, with plenty of room for going into detail, adapting for new purposes, and no 'dead ends'. 
  3. It needs to be extremely generalized, so that it is easily extensible and familiar to everyone. Each qualifier added on to the description of a theme is another step to making the theme harder to join in on and harder to find ways to use, and each obscure reference added to a theme just to make it historically accurate bogs it down. This is a theme to set a basis for the development of our identity, not an alternate history roleplay. In the past, when we've adopted extremely specific themes, people have gotten bored quickly once they realize they're stuck within narrow bounds and have to make up everything besides the titles.
  4. It needs to be uncontroversial and inoffensive, regardless of cultural background. This is where we've hit a wall with Christian proposals before. In general, the easiest way to be sure you're uncontroversial is to go farther back in history.
In searching for a long-term theme for Lazarus, to define us for years to come, we should also take cues from the successful and stable themes of the other sinkers, Balder and Osiris. While of course they already had their themes easily set out for themselves in their names in a way that we do not, they've done very well at keeping it general and familiar.

Osiris has an Ancient Egyptian theme. Is it commonly recognized? By all means-- think of how many ancient-Egypt-themed novels there are out there. Pretty much everyone knows what a Pharaoh is. Is it nevertheless a rich trove of material to draw from? Absolutely. And Osiris makes use of it quite well, with all the subforum names-- Temple of Tefnut, Temple of Ma'at, Temple of Bes, Temple of Atum, Temple of Khepri, etc. Is it extremely generalized? Check there, too. Osiris's theme doesn't say it's "ancient Egypt of the lower Nile delta in X thousand BC", it's just "Ancient Egypt". The titles of their offices, Viziers and the Council of Priests and so on, may not be historically accurate, but they're recognizable and simple. And although a modern-Egypt or Caliphate Osiris would have its political problems, Osiris keeps it uncontroversial by keeping it ancient.

Balder does this in the same way. Ancient Nordic is a commonly recognized theme, but Norse mythology is quite complex and a deep well to draw from; and they remain incredibly general— a Nordic cross flag with a Viking-themed military and emojis and Scandinavian monarchical titles. (While I think Balder’s may be a little bit too low on the culture effort, they certainly have the idea— that you should evoke, not perfectly copy, a culture to develop it as your region’s— down pat.)

So I’d like to propose, for Lazarus, an Ancient Greek identity. This would hopefully not just be a one-time piece of entertainment, but a lasting element of what Lazarus is as a community. Similar to the way the common theme of China stood between the PRL and the HRL and arguably the governments both before and after those two as well, and the Phoenix has been through all of them, it should stand as a constant element of Lazarus’s identity across governments and coups. 

I support an Ancient Greek identity because I believe it fits the characteristics of a theme that will stick. If we go back to my criteria at the beginning, the ones which both Balder and Osiris satisfied:
  • Ancient Greece is just as well-known as the Vikings and the Ancient Egyptians, if not more so, in Western literature. Almost everyone knows who Zeus is, even if it’s just from Percy Jackson. And the links from our modern governmental system back to Athenian democracy help increase the familiarity all the more. 
  • Greek mythology is a well-known cultural mythology with an already-established canon, just like ancient Egyptian or Norse mythology. I’d argue one can even go deeper into Greek mythology than others before the average Westerner stops recognizing it. Theseus and the Minotaur, Odysseus and the sirens, Perseus and Andromeda, Heracles, etc... there’s a lot to work from. 
  • Like Osiris’ and Balder’s themes, it is quite generalized. Just “Ancient Greek”. The “Ancient” is there, like Osi’s “Ancient Egyptian” and Balder’s “Ancient Norse”, to keep the political and/or religious controversy out of it. 
There are a couple of other advantages. No other GCR or major region I can think of has a Hellenistic identity of any sort. It’s a blaring gap for us to fill. (Just like there are no other major Egyptian or Norse regions, notably!) And Ancient Greek does, in fact, have solid connections to our existing identity. The phoenix is a Greek symbol and originated in Ancient Greek culture (to this day, it's the national (mythical) bird of modern Greece). Ancient Greek is about the closest we can get to the origin of "Lazarus" without getting into potentially controversial and offensive territory:

Etymology of "Lazarus": Via Late Latin Lazarus, from Ancient Greek Λάζαρος (Lázaros), the New Testament Greek form of Hebrew אֶלְעָזָר‎ (ʾelʿāzār, literally “God has helped”)

An Ancient Greek theme received substantial and widespread support in our initial discussion on discord as well, to the point that we discussed several possible position names (Basileus, Ecclesia, etc.)

While I personally would most like to see effort put into developing LazCorp, if the region truly feels that it has hit a wall there, I believe it’s important to do a new identity the right way, and so far this proposal has struck me as the one that’s hit all of the criteria.
#4
People can see and recognize Corporate as a theme.
#5
I strongly support everything Aumelodia has said about an ancient Greek theme. We've spent a good long while developing it as a foundation for our regional culture and identity. We spent a good long time arguing and discussing the merits of a new theme- from Transylvanian vampires to no theme at all. Killer Kitty made a noteworthy point that we're all kind of tired of switching identities like a revolving door until we get it right, desperately chasing the magic the PRL theme gave us in terms of activity.

Aumelodia has set out a sensible set of requirements a new theme needs not only to succeed for a few months, but to give us an identity for once in forever. Through many governments and coups, Osiris has always had Egypt, and it has always had a Pharaoh. Lazarus needs a culture and an identity that serves its community beyond the regime flavor of the month or year, something that binds us together as Lazarenes and can't be broken. It's something Osiris and Balder have had relatively clear-cut due to their namesakes- I think it's high time we get one of our own.

The key is keeping it general. Most of us in the Discord who talked about it agreed that this isn't just a changing of titles, and it shouldn't be too complex. The Delegate title would most likely be Basileus (or in Imki's case, Basileia or Basilissa), and the legislature would be called an Ecclesia. So those are some ideas to start. For the most part we want to keep it vague. We need our own regional identity, that we can develop organically with the help of cultural influence (such as Hellenic culture), instead of placing ourselves in an inflexible niche like corporations or space cults. I strongly support developing a Greek-inspired culture for Lazarus that can stand the test of time, and gladly volunteer my time and effort to making this an endeavor that will work for our region.
The Most Holy Kingdom of Wycliffe
#6
We... have that though? I thought we were all behind this corporate theme... thats why I wrote the damn law on it.
#7
Laz'R'Us - whimsy, caprice, and misfit toys

LazCorp: Rise of Villains - be bad guys in the style of Lex Luthor and Haliburton

Return to Anarchy - it could be that you all simply can't picture a stable Laz without a quarterly upheaval of some kind. Anarchy 2.0, baby!
[img=0x0]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385466173208264705/492001046328115220/Bran_LazPass.png[/img]
#8
I’m really not a fan of an Ancient Greek theme. It feels like an ancient theme just because Osiris and Balder have one. I also thing that the theme wouldn’t be engaging in the slightest, as Ancient Greece, without changing the structure, would be boring.
Assistant Minister for Media and Events
Former Chief Justice of the Grand Court
Former Vice Delegate
Former Guardian


 

[Image: 3cgBDsj.jpg]
#9
Honestly, why do we need this?
#10
I think we could think about changing corporate to something like Laz'R'Us yeah Tongue

I would also support making the theme the official theme in some capacity, such as having the titles move over to the mandate instead of a bill where they are just alternate titles. Making it the official theme not just a "Can be used" thing... but I am also ok with what we have here staying. I don't see a need to change it honestly.


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