Lazarene Regional Guard Amendment (2020)

[McChimp]

Even nicer it would be if our Minister of Foreign Affairs would show that he's capable of a calm, reasoned response, backed by evidence, and would actually criticise the proposal much rather than accuse whoever disagrees with him of acting in the interests of foreign regions. We can all dream, I suppose.

I will, once again, refer you to the courts if you believe I'm serving any foreign interests and am undermining the region. Until you do, though, I have no reason to get into a petty fight.

I have already argued reasonably against this proposal. I spent a great deal of time doing so the last time it was proposed and it hasn't changed since then. You should remember this, since it wasn't at all long ago. Having to do so again so soon is vexatious.

I haven't taken this to court because I'm not accusing you of a crime. Nowhere in this thread have I claimed that you have done any of the things listed in our criminal code.

[joWhatup]

I haven't taken this to court because I'm not accusing you of a crime. Nowhere in this thread have I claimed that you have done any of the things listed in our criminal code.

So you're basically just bringing this up to score cheap political points? Classy. Continue with it if you so please - I do not care to defend against baseless accusations and cheap shots. Thank you for the honest response.

As for the proposal... Personally, I'd prefer to see the Prime Minister appoint the Military commander - if we want to go through with our democratic approach, we ought to ensure the military is able to be used as a foreign policy tool by the person who is in charge of the Executive.

[McChimp]

McChimp, I'm not talking in this thread as Vizier of FA in Osiris anymore than I am as NSToday PR Director of a Thalassian minister. I am talking in this thread as a Lazarene citizen. In my roles I represent the government's view of things as I am always bound by collective responsibility.

You're putting on a mask and telling me one thing then taking it off and telling me another. Just because you're not wearing your mask anymore doesn't mean you're not contradicting what you said and thereby undermining your government's position.

I am not bound by any collective responsibility as a Lazarene citizens and was merely asking for more decorum in this situation lest we go back to the mud slinging fights over R/D of the past that this constitution was mean to represent a break from

This constitution was meant to represent a break from the LWU raider dictatorship that preceeded it first and foremost. What represented a break from r/d mudslinging was the absence of r/d from the region, the neutrality that this bill seeks to remove.

If you don't want r/d mudslinging then maybe you should stop trying to bring r/d back.

[joWhatup]

If you don't want r/d mudslinging then maybe you should stop trying to bring r/d back.

I will point out that any R/Ders that responded in this thread have been reasonable and have not been mudslinging or accusing their R/D opponents (nor those who oppose their view on this amendment) of working for foreign regions intend on pursuing foreign interests in the region.

[McChimp]

So you're basically just bringing this up to score cheap political points? Classy. Continue with it if you so please - I do not care to defend against baseless accusations and cheap shots. Thank you for the honest response.

As for the proposal... Personally, I'd prefer to see the Prime Minister appoint the Military commander - if we want to go through with our democratic approach, we ought to ensure the military is able to be used as a foreign policy tool by the person who is in charge of the Executive.

I'm accusing you of pursuing foreign goals first and foremost. That's not a crime but it's not cheap or meaningless either.

When we last discussed this we chose to keep the guard under the control of the delegate specifically so that alignment wouldn't become an election issue if the amendment passed in order to discourage organisations like LWU from votestacking and aligning Lazarus. It doesn't surprise me that that measure troubles you.

I will point out that any R/Ders that responded in this thread have been reasonable and have not been mudslinging or accusing their R/D opponents (nor those who oppose their view on this amendment) of working for foreign regions intend on pursuing foreign interests in the region.

It's easy to remain calm when you don't care about the thing that's at risk. Maybe you're not accusing me of pursuing foreign goals because you're an exemplar of tranquillity or maybe it's just because this is literally the only region which I'm a member of.

[joWhatup]

I'm accusing you of pursuing foreign goals first and foremost. That's not a crime but it's not cheap or meaningless either.

True. But the political points you are trying to gain from it are both cheap and meaningless to me.

When we last discussed this we chose to keep the guard under the control of the delegate specifically so that alignment wouldn't become an election issue if the amendment passed in order to discourage organisations like LWU from votestacking and aligning Lazarus. It doesn't surprise me that that measure troubles you.

I was opposed to the whole democracy thing out of fear of foreign subversives votestacking the place initially, so I don't entirely understand what you are alluding to, but that makes sense.

It's easy to remain calm when you don't care about the thing that's at risk. Maybe you're not accusing me of pursuing foreign goals because you're an exemplar of tranquillity or maybe it's just because this is literally the only region which I'm a member of.

Perhaps I'm not accusing you of pursuing foreign goals because I believe you genuinely care for the region, despite disagreeing with you on this particular matter?

[McChimp]

True. But the political points you are trying to gain from it are both cheap and meaningless to me.

Non-existant, more like. I'm gaining nothing from this.

You, on the other hand, have a stake in this. This presents an opportunity for you to drag Lazarus into the raidersphere you represent.

[joWhatup]

Non-existant, more like. I'm gaining nothing from this.

You, on the other hand, have a stake in this. This presents an opportunity for you to drag Lazarus into the raidersphere you represent.

This opens up the ability to tag or detag. LWU, the region which interests I'm supposedly pursuing, gains nothing from either action.

[McChimp]

Non-existant, more like. I'm gaining nothing from this.

You, on the other hand, have a stake in this. This presents an opportunity for you to drag Lazarus into the raidersphere you represent.

This opens up the ability to tag or detag. LWU, the region which interests I'm supposedly pursuing, gains nothing from either action.

Not directly. Raiderdom as a whole would, though.

[Wymondham]

McChimp, I'm not talking in this thread as Vizier of FA in Osiris anymore than I am as NSToday PR Director of a Thalassian minister. I am talking in this thread as a Lazarene citizen. In my roles I represent the government's view of things as I am always bound by collective responsibility.

You're putting on a mask and telling me one thing then taking it off and telling me another. Just because you're not wearing your mask anymore doesn't mean you're not contradicting what you said and thereby undermining your government's position.

That is not at all what I'm doing McChimp. Am I not allowed to have views as a lazarene citizen? Or are you saying that because I serve in positions in other regions, like the other court justices,The assembly speaker and members of the govt, that it magically means my views are worth less as a citizen of Lazarus even when I am only asking for some decorum in this debate?