[Discussion] New Themes

[New Rogernomics]

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming around the idea that we might not want to have an official theme. Placing ourselves in a certain theme is bound to always be unsatisfactory to a solid chunk of the population- most people don't like LazCorp, and of them, they're all divided on what they want to replace it. I think in the long run, we may find more potential to develop our own, unique identity without shoehorning ourselves into a particular set of titles and culture that we may soon grow tired of- as with what happened to the HRL, the CU, the Realms, etc.

I would support legislation to give our titles respectable, but thematically neutral names. Things like legislature/congress, Delegate/Queen/Lord/Lady, High Court, etc. My first thought is that LazCorp should go. And as much as I dig the ancient Greek idea, and I do think we can make that work, I'm inclined to believe we'll end up better off in the long run if we develop it without an official rule enforcing it.

We already have theme neutral names in our constitution, so we don't need to legislate for new names. Instead we'd just remove LazCorp, and it would revert to Delegate and Minister,etc.

[Arlo]

At the end of the day I don't really care what the theme is. Lazcorp is fun, though it feels to me like it works better as a meme and informal theme than an actual regional identity.

I generally think Lazarus has historically approached theming wrong. Stop trying to impose a strict theme from the top down where everything is already decided -- and let one evolve on its own from interactions within the community. Other regions have very loose theming -- while Laz tends to take it a bit too far.

Just my cents.

Theming is only an issue when it changes the government functions, and all the themes thus far have just changed the titles. LazCorp is only corporate imagery and a little bit of roleplay if people want to, which is why Lazarus can afford to be apathetic on LazCorp. 

Not sure I can agree with that. Theming isn't just a legal issue -- it's part of our regional identity, and it has strong potential for both spurring and stifling activity.

What I'm trying to say is -- to me anyway, it has always looked like Lazarus has been trying to adapt itself to a theme, rather than the other way around. I hope that makes some sense.

[New Rogernomics]

At the end of the day I don't really care what the theme is. Lazcorp is fun, though it feels to me like it works better as a meme and informal theme than an actual regional identity.

I generally think Lazarus has historically approached theming wrong. Stop trying to impose a strict theme from the top down where everything is already decided -- and let one evolve on its own from interactions within the community. Other regions have very loose theming -- while Laz tends to take it a bit too far.

Just my cents.

Theming is only an issue when it changes the government functions, and all the themes thus far have just changed the titles. LazCorp is only corporate imagery and a little bit of roleplay if people want to, which is why Lazarus can afford to be apathetic on LazCorp.  

Not sure I can agree with that. Theming isn't just a legal issue -- it's part of our regional identity, and it has strong potential for both spurring and stifling activity.

What I'm trying to say is -- to me anyway, it has always looked like Lazarus has been trying to adapt itself to a theme, rather than the other way around. I hope that makes some sense. 

If anything throughout the Humane Republic, Celestial Union, and before then, theming distracted from running the region, and the People's Republic which people have nostalgia about wasn't even native to Lazarus - given it was literally a project of NPO infiltrators that collapsed after the New Lazarene Order.

What I am trying to say is that right now Lazarus has no real theme, and more just corporate titles that have renamed generic titles like Delegate and Minister.

If you want an example of a in-depth themed region still functioning with a really expansive lore and theme going on, the closest to that would be 10k Islands or Unknown.

The Nationstates trend is really moving away from theme-based governments though, and more towards generic governments, with regions generally following the generic parliamentary or presidential models.

If you are looking to what a Lazarene theme could look like, then there have been quite a few attempts by regions over the years, with varying degrees of success to try different themed government styles. 

We know of these styles of course:

• The Celestial Union took inspiration from Unknown, and various religious regions including the Ascendancy.
  
• The Humane Republic was an earnest attempt to adopt a pre-PRL theme, which also went in sort of the Chinese direction near the end.
  
• The People's Republic made Lazarus into a communist ideological style, which is pretty much in quite a few UCRs these days. 
  
• 10k islands, which has regional houses, and a sort of political oligarchy built around them.
  
• Osiris, which has a Egyptian theme.
  
• Balder, which has a Nordic theme. 
  

As for a few honorable mentions:

• The New Revolution, which basically built a region around a post-revolutionary French Republic style.
  

Even if we were to theme, it would take months of lore creation, and if people aren't behind it, it would more die off like the Magical Realms, where plenty of room was given to create lore, but no one stepped up to do so, and no one was really invested or interested in doing the work to make it happen.

[New Rogernomics]

Well it looks like there’s a substantial amount of support for LazCorp. That’s good, because it means no hassle, as long as people are actually determined to keep it going ideally permanently. I have no problem with LazCorp if people are dedicated to it. 

I’m really not a fan of an Ancient Greek theme. It feels like an ancient theme just because Osiris and Balder have one.

Which is.... because they’re well-liked and they stick around? When the other two regions of our type have themes with the exact same patently good attributes, it makes sense to model ours after them, no?

I think we could think about changing corporate to something like Laz'R'Us yeah  

I would also support making the theme the official theme in some capacity, such as having the titles move over to the mandate instead of a bill where they are just alternate titles. Making it the official theme not just a "Can be used" thing... but I am also ok with what we have here staying. I don't see a need to change it honestly.

No no no no no no no no no... {no’s continue on to infinity}

Incorporating the the theme into the constitution was one of the major weak points that led to the downfall of the CU. Would not recommend.  

The most successful model has always been generic. Take TNP, TSP, and Europeia, for example, which might do a little titling but follow more after RL government styles than any precise theme. 10k islands managed to pull it off, but they put many years of effort in to make it work.

[Wycliffe]

I would argue that the failure of the Realms had a great deal to do with the people entrusted to create them. Something we may forget is that we had something like four Realms, and each one was given to a prominent Lazarene (Rog, Funk and Harm among them, IIRC, and one other) to do what they wanted with it. Instead of completely organic development, what we ended up with was one or two Realms developing as the brainchild of whichever person controlled it, and the others dead in the water because their people didn't put any effort into it. The Realm leaders all ran in completely different directions, which gave the region no real sense of a unified culture- just four different, unevenly-developed fragments of one.

I believe we could make something like that work again, but it could not be structured in the same way, which gave too much free rein to the people to whom the Realms were assigned. And given that I don't think the appetite right now is to focus our regional efforts on developing something that deep or complex, it might be much simpler to abolish official theming.

We have some scraps of a sense of regional identity. We tend towards green, and we like to use the phoenix. The rest can kind of flow from there, I think.

[Arlo]

What I am trying to say is that right now Lazarus has no real theme, and more just corporate titles that have renamed generic titles like Delegate and Minister. 

I don't disagree haha. It's part of what I meant by "Lazcorp is fun, though it feels to me like it works better as a meme and informal theme than an actual regional identity."

I'm not advocating any particular position really. I'm just saying we don't need an intense pre-constructed theme. Why can't we just be Lazarus? Is that not enough??

[Wycliffe]

I agree. And some of us find LazCorp more boring than anything. I'd rather tear it down and let us be just Lazarus for a bit. See what shakes out.