[Discussion] Regional Theme

[HEM]

Hello, everyone.

I know there was a discussion on this topic on Discord a few weeks ago, but I would like to bring the conversation to a more formal setting here on the forum.

I am of the opinion that the "corporate" theme is not adding much to Lazarus as it speaks. Even as a rather experienced player, I found the nomenclature a little clunky and confusing ("Auditors" and "Human Resources" are two I find particularly ill-fit). I also think the corporate-level titles take away some of the "shine" of achieving governmental office in NS. I've said it before, but when I joined Nationstates part of the appeal was being a PRIME MINISTER or a KING or a PRESIDENT -- not a Managing Director or Night Shift Manager of Culture.

Frankly, I feel like half of the time folks refer to entities by their generic name anyways. For example, I nearly always reference the "Assembly" and "Prime Minister."

Unless someone has an out-of-this-world idea for a new theme that we all agree makes sense, I propose we just scrap the corporate theme and revert to the generic titles.

I am very open to disagreement here, but wanted to formally open the discussion given some of the chatter on Discord.

 

[moe]

Hmm

Personally I don't mind the corporate theme that much. I use the actual role/corporate role 50/50. I do think that there is a point that this theme could be what makes us unique/quirky/attractive, but I don't know if we are fully capitalizing on that.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Since we are discussing themes, my general opinion on them is more about meeting practical criteria:

• Do some people enjoy having it? It doesn't have to be most people, just some, as choosing a theme on popular support of voters versus use to the region is a problematic assumption.1
• Is it an operative burden to running the region? Which is what you might be implying here HEM.
• Are the other possible theme options worse than the existing one? Meaning would they be divisive if implemented, which I think would be met say by a PRL theme or a more intense corporate theme than exists currently.
• Would retiring the theme upset prominent members of the region, and hurt community integration? Meaning, would repealing the theme or altering it drastically result in a loss of public morale or regional identity.

It would make sense to just amend the Corporate Theme Act, to make it just a supplementary RP in my opinion, than a straight repeal, as folks can still RP it if they wish - with it no longer having an official status. The act was written to not be official titles, so this would be a relatively simple thing to amend.

1. As one of the authors of the Celestial Union constitution, I can testify to this, as the Celestial Union was in fact quite popular in terms of a regional vote, easily gathering the support of 3/4 of voters. This did not mean it was the best theme for the region though.​

 

[New Rogernomics]

The current act is below:

Spoiler: Lazarene Corporation Theme Act

Lazarene Corporation Theme Act (2020)

Proposed by: @Debussy

Preamble

This law shall define the regional theme and alternate titles within the region

Section 1. Shareholders of Lazarus

(1) Shareholder shall be the alternate title to Citizen
(2) The Shareholders of Lazarus shall be the alternate title of the Assembly of Lazarus
(3) The Chairperson of the Shareholders shall be the alternate title for the Speaker of the Assembly

Section 2. Chief Executive Officer of Lazarus

(1) The Chief Executive Officer of Lazarus, alternatively called the CEO, shall be the alternate title of the Delegate of Lazarus

Section 3. Chief Operating Officer of Lazarus

(1) The Chief Operating Officer of Lazarus, alternatively called the COO, shall be the alternate title of the Vice Delegate of Lazarus

Section 4. Board of Directors of Lazarus

(1) Board of Directors of Lazarus shall be the alternate title for the Cabinet of Lazarus
(2) Director shall be the alternate title of a Minister

Section 5. Managing Director

(1) The Managing Director shall be the alternate name for the Prime Minister

Section 6. Human Resource Officers

(1) The Human Resource Offices shall be the alternate name of the Court of Lazarus
(2) Human Resource Officers shall be the alternate title to Justices of the Court of Lazarus

Section 7. Auditors of Lazarus

(1) The Auditors of Lazarus shall be the alternative title to the Council of Lazarene Security
(2) Auditor of Lazarus, alternatively called just Auditor, shall be the alternative title for Councillors of Lazarene Security

Section 8. Use of Alternative Titles

(1) Alternative titles shall be regarded purely as regional culture and lore
(2) Alternative titles are not the official titles and should not be used in treaties or official laws

Which could just be amended as so:

Spoiler: Lazarene Corporation Theme Act

Lazarene Corporation Theme Act (2020)

Proposed by: @Debussy

Preamble

This law shall define the regional theme and alternate titles within the region

Section 1. Shareholders of Lazarus

(1) Shareholder can be the alternate title to Citizen
(2) The Shareholders of Lazarus can be the alternate title of the Assembly of Lazarus
(3) The Chairperson of the Shareholders can be the alternate title for the Speaker of the Assembly

Section 2. Chief Executive Officer of Lazarus

(1) The Chief Executive Officer of Lazarus, alternatively called the CEO, can be the alternate title of the Delegate of Lazarus

Section 3. Chief Operating Officer of Lazarus

(1) The Chief Operating Officer of Lazarus, alternatively called the COO, can be the alternate title of the Vice Delegate of Lazarus

Section 4. Board of Directors of Lazarus

(1) Board of Directors of Lazarus shall be the alternate title for the Cabinet of Lazarus
(2) Director shall be the alternate title of a Minister

Section 5. Managing Director

(1) The Managing Director can be the alternate name for the Prime Minister

Section 6. Human Resource Officers

(1) The Human Resource Offices can be the alternate name of the Court of Lazarus
(2) Human Resource Officers can be the alternate title to Justices of the Court of Lazarus

Section 7. Auditors of Lazarus

(1) The Auditors of Lazarus can be the alternative title to the Council of Lazarene Security
(2) Auditor of Lazarus, alternatively called just Auditor, can be the alternative title for Councillors of Lazarene Security

Section 8. Use of Alternative Titles

(1) Alternative titles shall be regarded purely as regional culture and lore for purposes of role-play,
(2) Alternative titles are not the official titles and should not be used in any official capacity.

 

[Frankender]

when I joined Nationstates part of the appeal was being a PRIME MINISTER or a KING or a PRESIDENT -- not a Managing Director or Night Shift Manager of Culture.

I am on board with the gas station theme


@ new rogernomics I don't think amending the act is the goal of this topic. I think we should have an internal poll to guage peoples' current opinions on the Corporate theme.

I, myself, am also not a fan of the current theme, especially with titles like Auditors and HR as HEM stated.

 

[Frankender]

Please take this survey regarding the LazCorp theme, and post here once you have done so to verify that no one else has voted for you. For security reasons, the vote will be public and if you do not post here, I will not include your results in the poll.

This is not an official poll.

Redacted

 

[New Rogernomics]

Please take this survey regarding the LazCorp theme, and post here once you have done so to verify that no one else has voted for you. For security reasons, the vote will be public and if you do not post here, I will not include your results in the poll.

This is not an official poll.

https://forms.gle/wnGpHhq3jnTusq9ZA

You should modify that, if we are going to use it to allow a no theme option, as in that one I could only pick LazCorp or a new theme, vs what HEM is proposing which is ending the LazCorp theme and reverting to generic titles.

I did also make this more extensive poll covering a lot of subjects a while back, when were discussing polls, where it also adds the following options:, so we could just use this as well: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...qswbmWYXAu9xeh2_tv8ZInYhJ2iItgXQ/formResponse

What should the theme of Lazarus be?
Currently we have the LazCorp or Corporate Theme.
A. LazCorp or Corporate Theme. No change.
B. Lazarene Imperial AKA Chinese Empire styled.
C. Christian Lazarus AKA we have Stewards and other Christian styled positions.
D. We should not have a theme.
E. Don't know/Unsure.
Other:

When folks say no theme it comes up with this:

Edit: Having spoken to Frankender apparently he means for his new theme option in his poll to include no theme as well.

 

[Frankender]

I agree, but for now I am trying to just guage whether people are happy or unhappy with the theme

 

[Domais]

Nah, keep the theme the way it is. There is no reason to change.

 

[Chanku]

I see no reason to change, unless the next theme is particularly interesting or anything like that. The current theme works.

 

[Frankender]

No reason to change? Can you both not read the concerns laid out before you spoke?

edit: also I would rather keep this discussion to citizens who are active within the assembly…

 

[treadwellia]

To all here: if there is to be discussion about a possible change of theme, please keep it civil.

On a personal note, if changing the theme were to dramatically improve Lazarus, great. Change for change's sake, however, too often just leads to a need to change the new change again. I'm fine with keeping LazCorp: it's quirky, it's unique compared to other regions, and it's simple enough to follow overall. Could we adjust some of the labels and add a bigger sense of importance by changing titles? Heh. It works in real corporations, right?

To completely scrap the idea of LazCorp just for the sake of something new doesn't sit particularly well with me. I can understand potential concerns with the existing setup, yes, but those individual concerns can certainly be addressed.

 

[moe]

To all here: if there is to be discussion about a possible change of theme, please keep it civil.

On a personal note, if changing the theme were to dramatically improve Lazarus, great. Change for change's sake, however, too often just leads to a need to change the new change again. I'm fine with keeping LazCorp: it's quirky, it's unique compared to other regions, and it's simple enough to follow overall. Could we adjust some of the labels and add a bigger sense of importance by changing titles? Heh. It works in real corporations, right?

To completely scrap the idea of LazCorp just for the sake of something new doesn't sit particularly well with me. I can understand potential concerns with the existing setup, yes, but those individual concerns can certainly be addressed.

This is how I feel as well. If we were to change the theme I'd want for it to lead to some kind of improvement, not just change for the sake of change.

I think the confusing titles can be a compelling point, but is it worth losing the uniqueness that we have?

 

[New Rogernomics]

This is how I feel as well. If we were to change the theme I'd want for it to lead to some kind of improvement, not just change for the sake of change.

I think the confusing titles can be a compelling point, but is it worth losing the uniqueness that we have?

We can always just edit the most confusing titles, and leave the ones that everyone is fine with.

Also the act doesn't actually require us to use theme titles, it is optional, so for some we can just use the generic title without having to amend or alter the act:

(1) Alternative titles shall be regarded purely as regional culture and lore
(2) Alternative titles are not the official titles and should not be used in treaties or official laws

So I am open to suggestions on what themed titles could be reverted to their generic titles.

 

[Frankender]

Seeing as numerous people are willing to voice their opinion, but won’t even give the 10 seconds to vote, I am no longer in favor of repealing LazCorp

 

[moe]

Seeing as numerous people are willing to voice their opinion, but won’t even give the 10 seconds to vote, I am no longer in favor of repealing LazCorp

Yeah, this is unfortunate, but I think a lot of people may not really care either way, hence the low voting numbers. Is there an option to make a poll directly on the forums? More people may vote on that.

I think @New Rogernomics 's solution makes the most sense, we can keep the parts of the theme that work, but if any are confusing or hard to understand we can just revert them. Or even change it to something else, like instead of HR for courts, maybe we could use Legal or something?

 

[New Rogernomics]

Anyone can create a poll as a separate topic.

 

[HEM]

Just to chime in here again: I think there are two major problems with the current theme:

(1) Some of the themed titles do not make sense//come off as very weird. This could be fixed by changing those titles (Auditors, Human Resources imo)
(2) I believe this theme is a deterrent in integration. I said it above, corporate-themed regions I've witnessed in the past had trouble exciting people because the titles are inherently a "step down" in prestige and excitement than actually...political titles. Many newbies would be more keen to be PRIME MINISTER than a "Managing Director." Now, do I have 100% ironclad proof this is impacting Lazarus currently? No, but it is my hunch that it isn't helping our current activity issue, and I think just reverting to our generic/fallback titles would be an improvement.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Just to chime in here again: I think there are two major problems with the current theme:

(1) Some of the themed titles do not make sense//come off as very weird. This could be fixed by changing those titles (Auditors, Human Resources imo)
(2) I believe this theme is a deterrent in integration. I said it above, corporate-themed regions I've witnessed in the past had trouble exciting people because the titles are inherently a "step down" in prestige and excitement than actually...political titles. Many newbies would be more keen to be PRIME MINISTER than a "Managing Director." Now, do I have 100% ironclad proof this is impacting Lazarus currently? No, but it is my hunch that it isn't helping our current activity issue, and I think just reverting to our generic/fallback titles would be an improvement.

All themes are technically a deterrent to integration to a point, though they are always a thing for some to have fun with, and can be a regional cultural thing that at least some can tie themselves to and enjoy.

No one is ever going to be fully happy with any regional theme and there will always be folks that dissent and want it gone.

The most active periods of Lazarene forum activity either involved the PRL theme, or the Humane Republic theme, which both used unique titles and provided a regional culture with it, and that was what the community was built around.

I think ending LazCorp as a regional culture thing entirely out of the blue would be destructive in the sense folks are used to it, and just hurt the community because nothing would be put in its place in any reasonable amount of time.

I'd be all ears for something we gradually add into Lazarene culture, even with the goal of supplanting and replacing LazCorp (if the region wants that), though I think radical change at this time would harm rather than help.

We could quite easily just change the titles to something else, without actually pulling the plug so to speak before folks have had time to adapt to something else. Even were the goal an outright end of LazCorp.

 

[Frankender]

Yeah, this is unfortunate, but I think a lot of people may not really care either way, hence the low voting numbers. Is there an option to make a poll directly on the forums? More people may vote on that.

I think @New Rogernomics 's solution makes the most sense, we can keep the parts of the theme that work, but if any are confusing or hard to understand we can just revert them. Or even change it to something else, like instead of HR for courts, maybe we could use Legal or something?

Yes, as for the polls I made a request for new Rogernomics to add the feature to the forums