[Proposal] Reduction in punishment (June 2020)

[Domais]

Reduction in punishment (June 2020)
Proposed by @Domais​

PreambleSection 1. Reduction of Sentence

(2) A Reduced Sentence shall read:

 

[Deleted1]

I support this.

 

[Wymondham]

I would ask for Domais reasoning for requesting of the assembly that the sentence be reduced

 

[Domais]

Vedan is to be banned from membership of the Regional Guard for 18 months,

Why ban an eager member of the Guard for such a long time? Even if he wasn't an eager member, 18 months is just too long.

banned from holding public office for 8 months

Why? This is totally unrelated, I know he was privately appointed director of the guard but that wasn't official. I feel like that is blow out of proportions.

and shall have their voting rights suspended for 2 months.

Why? Again, unrelated.

They may apply to have their Regional Guard ban commuted after 12 months and their ban from public office commuted after 6 months.

This is dumb, and may I ask apply to whom? The courts or the Delegate? Can we just settle on a time frame and not having this "commutation".

I think only a ban from the Guard is appropriate in this case.

 

[McChimp]

Why ban an eager member of the Guard for such a long time? Even if he wasn't an eager member, 18 months is just too long.

Why? This is totally unrelated, I know he was privately appointed director of the guard but that wasn't official. I feel like that is blow out of proportions.

Why? Again, unrelated.

Why would we allow those who regard the law with contempt to decide what it says?

Vedan's sentence was lenient. It makes no sense to reduce it.

 

[Domais]

Vedan's sentence was not lenient.

 

[Killer Kitty]

Vedan's sentence was lenient. It makes no sense to reduce it.

A 18 month ban from the Guard? A random out of place 2 month ban from voting and a 12 month ban from office that doesn't even make any sense in context?

How is that lenient? That's the type of punishment we'd hand out for lesser types of treason.

No, this punishment was very much not lenient, especially on something that was the first violation of this type in LazCorp history and very much murky legal territory before the conclusion of this trial. It's extremely discouraging to Regional Guard members and sends the very clear message "you make an honest mistake, you're going to get punished so hard you'll literally regret ever joining the Guard at all." I don't think we want to be saying that to our Guard members. We generally want more of them, not less.

The punishment was excessive and doesn't fit the crime. The voting and public office restriction is especially baffling and nonsensical. This sort of over the top, draconian Book Throwing will hurt Guard morale and recruitment by letting them know that we don't have their backs, and we will destroy them if they ever make an honest mistake.

 

[Demonos]

Didn't sentencing or, at least, deliberation require a two-thirds vote? The problem isn't with the severity of the punishment. It was that only one Justice sentenced AND tried Vedan. Who were the other Justices? Why wasn't their presence made known in the trial's tread? There was one juror throughout the entire process. Amicus curiae aren't even mentioned in Judicial Procedures of Lazcorp! There is a serious problem with the judicial system here.

 

[Chanku]

Didn't sentencing or, at least, deliberation require a two-thirds vote? The problem isn't with the severity of the punishment. It was that only one Justice sentenced AND tried Vedan. Who were the other Justices? Why wasn't their presence made known in the trial's tread? There was one juror throughout the entire process. Amicus curiae aren't even mentioned in Judicial Procedures of Lazcorp! There is a serious problem with the judicial system here.

I believe Wymondham is the Chief Justice, and generally the other Justices only post if they directly need to do so from what I can tell.

 

[Wymondham]

Didn't sentencing or, at least, deliberation require a two-thirds vote? The problem isn't with the severity of the punishment. It was that only one Justice sentenced AND tried Vedan. Who were the other Justices? Why wasn't their presence made known in the trial's tread? There was one juror throughout the entire process. Amicus curiae aren't even mentioned in Judicial Procedures of Lazcorp! There is a serious problem with the judicial system here.

The decision was reached unanimously via the discord channel, both the sentence and the judgement were unanimous as @Amerion and @Atlantica can confirm

 

[McChimp]

A 18 month ban from the Guard? A random out of place 2 month ban from voting and a 12 month ban from office that doesn't even make any sense in context?

How is that lenient? That's the type of punishment we'd hand out for lesser types of treason.

No, this punishment was very much not lenient, especially on something that was the first violation of this type in LazCorp history and very much murky legal territory before the conclusion of this trial. It's extremely discouraging to Regional Guard members and sends the very clear message "you make an honest mistake, you're going to get punished so hard you'll literally regret ever joining the Guard at all." I don't think we want to be saying that to our Guard members. We generally want more of them, not less.

The punishment was excessive and doesn't fit the crime. The voting and public office restriction is especially baffling and nonsensical. This sort of over the top, draconian Book Throwing will hurt Guard morale and recruitment by letting them know that we don't have their backs, and we will destroy them if they ever make an honest mistake.

Vedan didn't "make an honest mistake". He attempted to violate laws that he had discussed in detail just a few hours before. There was nothing murky about the illegality of what he did: breaking the law or attempting to break the law is bad. It's not rocket science.
He's not being punished for making a mistake, he's being punished for deliberately attempting to violate laws he understood and chose to ignore. That is something that needs to be deterred and is why he must recieve more than the slap on the wrist Domais prefers.

 

[Domais]

Seeing that it has been 3 days and seeing no further discussion, I motion this to vote.

 

[Killer Kitty]

I second the motion.