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[Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Printable Version +- Forums (https://nslazarus.com/old_forum) +-- Forum: Second Floor (https://nslazarus.com/old_forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=112) +--- Forum: Board Meeting Room (https://nslazarus.com/old_forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=19) +---- Forum: Past Proposals & Discussions (https://nslazarus.com/old_forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=50) +---- Thread: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) (/showthread.php?tid=215) |
RE: [Discussion] Legal Code - McChimp - 08-28-2018 Amerion;2894 Wrote:The general assumption is that the Court, being the sole judicial authority would rule on matters pertaining to criminality. Insofar as enforcement is concerned, that would likely fall under the purview of the Delegate and the relevant administrators of our public infrastructures (Forum & Discord). Having discussed this in the discord, I think that it's actually the part of the mandate about the Delegate that needs to be amended. At least as I have seen the criminal court procedure envisioned so far, the court would lead an inquiry into which citizens enter evidence (either by choice or compulsion), the court reports to the delegate and then the delegate makes a judgement and enforces the punishment. As the mandate currently stands, the delegate would then require a majority of the CLS to approve of a punishment. It seems a little OTT to me to require the cooperation of three different institutions to bring justice about, let alone the damage that actually does to the power of the criminal system. So one way to do it would be to add a section granting the delegate the power to enforce lawful punishments if presented with compelling evidence by the court. It could then be made criminal to refuse to give evidence if compelled to by two justices. RE: [Discussion] Legal Code - Amerion - 08-28-2018 McChimp;2925 Wrote:Amerion;2894 Wrote:The general assumption is that the Court, being the sole judicial authority would rule on matters pertaining to criminality. Insofar as enforcement is concerned, that would likely fall under the purview of the Delegate and the relevant administrators of our public infrastructures (Forum & Discord). This discussion merits its own thread. Would you care to create one? RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Sheepshape - 08-30-2018 I have several thoughts but until quoting is fixed I'm struggling with getting them to show up properly. <_< One quick one though, I think Espionage is too open. Under that definition, the Delegate releasing information from a private executive area to the Assembly would be espionage. I suggest looking at TNP's language on espionage as a starting place on how to improve this clause: "6. "Espionage" is defined as sharing information with a group or region when that act of sharing has not been legitimately sanctioned by the entity the information is gathered from, as limited by this section. 7. The information shared must not be accessible to a person who is not a member of the region or group it is gathered from except by cracking technical security measures. 8. The information must be gathered from The North Pacific or a foreign power the Regional Assembly has agreed to prohibit espionage against." So basically, the people in charge of a particular section of the forum can sanction the release of information - that could be declassification, or reporting to the legislature, or providing evidence in a trial, or sharing important military intel with an ally, etc. And it doesn't include sharing publically visible information on the TNP forum with outsiders, since they could access that information simply by checking the site. But a minister sharing private legislative discussions with a non-citizen would qualify, because the minister doesn't have power in the legislature and the outsider would have to hack someone's account to access that same information. Plus, TNP doesn't criminalize spying on random regions (just some specific allies), whereas the language you have now could plausibly be broad enough to apply to any espionage anywhere. RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Amerion - 08-30-2018 Sheepshape;2985 Wrote:I have several thoughts but until quoting is fixed I'm struggling with getting them to show up properly. <_< Noted with thanks. I'll soon amend it. RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Amerion - 08-30-2018 [spoiler=Version 4] Criminal Code Act (September 2018)
Proposed by: Amerion
Preamble In order to make provision for the maintenance of public law and order, this Act shall codify the general principles of criminal responsibility in Lazarus. Section 1. Tier 1 offences (1) Treason Any person who: a. engages in conduct with the intention of illegally removing or altering: i. the Mandate; ii. the Government; or iii. the Delegate; b. levies war, or does any act preparatory to levying war, against Lazarus; shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment of an indefinite banishment. (2) Sabotage Any person who engages in conduct with the intention of interfering, destroying, or rendering unserviceable a public infrastructure, shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion which may extend to an indefinite banishment. (3) Espionage Any person who has access to information contained in a restricted area and knowingly communicates, in part or in whole, that information which has not been legitimately sanctioned for distribution by the relevant authority, to a person who, or an entity which does not have access to the restricted area, shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion which may extend to an indefinite banishment. Section 2. Tier 2 offences (1) Foreign interference Any person who: a. knowingly engages in conduct on behalf of, or in collaboration with, a foreign entity; and b. whose conduct influences the processes of the Government; shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding an 8-month banishment. (2) Bribery Any person who: a. offers, provides, or agrees to provide a benefit of any kind with the intention of influencing a person in the exercise of that person’s duties; or b. asks, receives, or agrees to receive a benefit of any kind with the intention that the exercise of that person’s duties will be influenced; shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 6-month banishment. (3) Blackmail Any person who intimidates a person with the intent of causing gain for himself or loss to another, shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 6-month banishment. Section 3. Tier 3 offences (1) Fraud Any person who, by dishonesty or deception, obtains an advantage or causes disadvantage to a person, shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 4-month banishment. (2) Contempt of Court Any person who: a. intimidates or insults a person in a sitting of the Court; b. intentionally interrupts the proceedings of the Court; or c. disobeys a direction of the Court; shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 2-month banishment. (3) Perjury Any person who, in a sitting of the Court and having taken an oath relating to a matter before the Court, makes any false statement on that matter, and knowing the statement to be false, shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 2-month banishment. (4) Unlawful disclosure Any person who: a. conceals current or previous affiliations extending to no less than 12 months prior in a public declaration; b. conceals current or previous aliases extending to no less than 12 months prior in a public declaration; or c. engages in conduct with the intention of attaining multiple accounts in a public infrastructure; shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 2-month banishment. (5) Vexatious proceedings Any person who: a. instigates or pursues judicial proceedings without reasonable ground; or b. engages in conduct which is an abuse of judicial proceedings; shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 2-month banishment. (6) Defamation Any person who communicates to a third party information concerning a person, with the intention of causing harm to that person, shall, unless proven otherwise, be guilty of an offence. A person may prove the defamatory imputations: a. are significantly true: or b. is a matter of opinion rather than a statement of fact. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 2-month banishment. (7) Conspiracy Any person who engages in conduct and does so for the intention of preparing or planning to commit an offence, shall be guilty of an offence. An offender is liable to punishment at judicial discretion not exceeding a 2-month banishment. Section 4. Definitions In this Act: ‘Banishment’ means from removal by the relevant authorities of a person from Lazarus. ‘Opinion’ means a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. ‘Public declaration’ means a form or statement provided by a person to and requested by the government. ‘Public infrastructure’ means an area operated by the government or its associated authorities for use of the public, including, but not limited to, the NationStates region of Lazarus, the forum, or Discord. ‘Restricted area’ means an area in which specific measures are employed to prevent unauthorised access. ‘Sitting of the Court’ means an area administered by the Court. ‘Third party’ means a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation. [/spoiler] RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Amerion - 08-30-2018 I have updated the bill which is available in the post above this one. It now includes a definitions section. Unless the terms are unique to Lazarus, the definitions have been copied from Merriam-Webster. The language relating to the offence of Espionage has been amended: [table][cell] (3) Espionage
[/cell][/table]Any person who has access to information contained in a restricted area and knowingly communicates, in part or in whole, that information which has not been legitimately sanctioned for distribution by the relevant authority, to a person who, or an entity which does not have access to the restricted area, shall be guilty of an offence. I also added a perjury section. I read Sheep's opinion that perjury could go under fraud but I think the general opinion is that lying to the Court falls under its own separate offence. RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Ryccia - 09-02-2018 Under "Vexatious proceedings", who determines what is "reasonable ground"? Reason is entirely subjective. For a Christian, for example, God came as a man and forgave our sins, whilst I do not believe in that. For a Wolfist, La Resistance was the one planning a coup, not Funk. Others might disagree. And a corrupt judge can just claim "Vexatious proceedings" to refuse or close a case. Thus, I propose something like this: Quote:... If my advice is taken, I do suggest better wording, as I recognize that my writing skills might be poor in your eyes. And if I have misrepresented or missed anything, do tell. Also, can we add crimes like "electoral manipulation" or "corruption", perhaps? RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Amerion - 09-02-2018 Ryccia;3047 Wrote:Under "Vexatious proceedings", who determines what is "reasonable ground"? Reason is entirely subjective. For a Christian, for example, God came as a man and forgave our sins, whilst I do not believe in that. For a Wolfist, La Resistance was the one planning a coup, not Funk. Others might disagree. And a corrupt judge can just claim "Vexatious proceedings" to refuse or close a case ... My understanding is that the Court will determine what constitutes vexatious proceedings. It is at their discretion. As to your concern of a corrupt Justice, I imagine there will be safeguards put in place in a future judiciary bill. Electoral manipulation and corruption seem to both fall under the definition of fraud, the latter more so than the former. However, I will do some research on electoral manipulation and see if the bill needs amending on this point. Thanks for the suggestions! ![]() RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Sheepshape - 09-05-2018 Alrighty, here we go in full. I approach laws, and particularly criminal codes, from the perspective of "If Mall joined this region, how could he twist things to work out in his advantage? How would he get away scot-free and make us look silly with what we've written? How could our courts or other systems fall short in applying the law as we intend it to be applied?" You get as imaginative as you can with that, then write your laws to compensate. So that's my perspective here; closing loopholes and making sure definitions are as tight as we need them to be. As a starter, I'm not sure I understand why things are broken up into tiered offenses when they're not tied into any actual punishments linked to tier (i.e., punishments are listed individually, not by group). And it's certainly possible for someone's act of defamation, fraud, or blackmail to be worse than some forms of petty (in the non-technical sense) treason.[note]For those curious, the technical definition of "petty treason" comes from English common law and involves the murder of a superior officer via betrayal.[/note] I suggest making a simple list of crimes and allowing context and delegate or judicial discretion to determine how severe they are. As such, I've also removed all references to specific punishments. Unless things drastically change, punishments are looking likely to be imposed by the delegate, and I vastly prefer to leave them the power to do what they feel is appropriate given the larger context. I've also moved the definitions into their relevant crimes; that makes it easier to follow IMO. And some of them we really don't need. Now, on to specific bits: Quote:In order to make provision for the maintenance ofmaintain public law and order, this Aact shall codify the general principles of criminal responsibility incodifies criminal actions in Lazarus. No person may be found guilty of a crime not listed in this act. This is wordier than it needs to be. I've suggested some changes that tighten it up a bit. I also added the final sentence because holy god is it horrible when someone decides to throw in a new crime in a separate law - it's the stuff of nightmares to a court. Require off the bat that they all belong in here and you avoid that migraine. Quote:(1) Treason I really don't like the tiering here. Much cleaner to have it all read as a sentence. Like this: Quote:Section 1. Treason Quote:Section 2. Sabotage I rephrased the first line here; "rendering unserviceable a noun" was giving me crossed eyes. Render unusable is clearer, I think, and sticking the noun after the verb is just easier reading. I also added a 3rd clause which grants admins exceptions, which I think is important - if an admin has to shut a forum down for a software upgrade, that needs to be fine. Quote:Section 3. Espionage I broke this one out into a couple sentences for clarity and changed your definition of 'restricted area' (I think mine is a bit more straightforward). I also specified that it's sharing information from Lazarus only. Quote:Section 4. Foreign Interference I've rephrased this one a bit better, but honestly, I don't like it as a crime. It's extremely vague, and 'influence' is pretty broad. Is it foreign interference if a dual citizen of Lazarus and Balder encourages Imki to make a treaty with Balder? Is it foreign influence for that person to vote against someone who wants Lazarus to invade Balder? Is it foreign influence if that person is a raider and suggests Imki create a raider military? Allegiances in NS are tricky and I think trying to quantify foreign interference this way is bad news. It's the sort of crime that will likely be used against people who aren't popular, but held back against popular people who do the same sorts of things. I very strongly urge striking it from your bill. Behavior which rises to the level of a crime can be individually criminalized (e.g., vote stacking). Quote:Section 5. Bribery I think your original 2nd part was not clear so I rephrased it to make it make more sense. I think it's now easier to tell that both making and accepting a bribe will be considered bribery. I also added governmental duties; I don't really think we need to criminalize trying to bribe someone with cupcakes if they make you a national map for example. I'm not really sold on including it at all, though. I think most of the time it doesn't really warrant standing as its own offense. Someone who says "I'll rule your way on that court review you brought if you vote for me" is separately committing misconduct in their office, not because of the bribery but because they are not ruling according to the law, for example. But I feel less strongly about this one than I do about the previous one so I won't fight too hard if y'all really want it. Quote:Section 6. Blackmail I changed your definition here a fair bit; "causing gain or loss" isn't really the right way to go, and blackmail is more than just general intimidation. Almost anything causes some sort of gain or loss, and "If you don't support my bill I'll open a recall vote against you and you know it'll pass" can be pretty intimidating. The key part is holding someone hostage by promising not to reveal to everyone that you know they're a spy or that they are actually someone's sentient pet rock. I also added in the 2nd clause because there's a major difference between threatening someone IC and threatening them OOC. The latter is best handled by an investigation and ban by forum administration, not by an in-game legal system (regardless of which process we ultimately decide on). Quote:Section 7. Fraud I also changed this one a lot. Like with blackmail, "advantage" and "disadvantage" are huge things. The relevant portion is knowingly spreading misinformation, so that's what I changed it to be. I also gave that a bit more definition. It's not an issue if I make implausible false statements, like that the moon will fall out of the sky and crush some kittens if the delegate doesn't vote for a resolution in the WA, or if I assert that we shouldn't vote for so-and-so as a minister because they're clearly part of the IRCabal dedicated to the overthrow of all regions in service to their noodly god. Those are patently ridiculous enough that nobody is going to make a decision based on them. But saying that you shouldn't vote for so-and-so because they've been convicted of espionage in another region is plausible, and a reasonable person would take a conviction into account when deciding who should serve where. So lying about that is a big deal. Or, moving away from targeting an individual (since that might count as defamation instead or in addition), telling people they can vote for ministers by telegramming [violet] is a lie, but silly enough that it shouldn't be considered fraud. But telling them they can vote next week, when the vote is actually going to be over in 2 days, would absolutely be reasonably expected to affect whether they voted in time and thus should count as a crime. Quote:Section 8. Contempt of Court I rewrote this for you, but I realllllly don't like it. Being disruptive is a moderation issue, not an IC governmental one, and I'd really very much prefer to leave handling obnoxious behavior to the court itself. Punishing people for crimes is challenging in the best of circumstances, and having to put them on trial for being a bit of an ass is excessive. Not to mention, the court would probably either have to bring the charges, or entirely recuse themselves from hearing the charges, to allow for fair treatment. I very much prefer for this not to be a crime, and for the court's procedures to permit it to basically ignore people who cause a scene. So the justices can just vote and say "This person is prevented from filing reviews with the court for 2 month for their behavior in X". It's a punishment (ignoring) befitting the crime (being attention-grabbing). Plus, disobeying a ruling of the court is a bigger deal than just being disruptive, and should be treated like a violation of any other part of the law. So I would strongly urge removing this entirely. Quote:Section 9. Perjury Rewritten for better, but I still don't like it. I don't see a strong argument for why this needs to be a different crime from fraud. And actually, in your draft you've given plain fraud a *longer* possible punishment than perjury, where perjury requires the violation of an oath in addition to the lie. I say strike it. Lying is lying, treat it all the same. I could maybe get behind something along the lines of... criminal interference? Like, lying to the court (or withholding information) such that someone else is punished or some particular outcome is reached that would not have happened if the truth had been told. But still lukewarm even on that. Quote:Section 10. Unlawful Disclosure I combined your first 2 here and condensed, but I can't say I'm a fan. There's a few reasons why. First of all, I think requiring public disclosure of affiliations and/or aliases is kinda silly. It's one of those ideas that sounds good in theory but really, practically, has basically no impact. All it means is that some people who want to start fresh get in trouble, and you've got one extra crime to throw at someone who conceals their identity in order to coup. It's really just... not a huge problem. Secondly, there are and can be perfectly valid reasons to hold multiple accounts. Here are a few:
Not to mention, having 2 accounts and calling that "unlawful disclosure" makes my eye twitch. That's not what those words mean. I strongly encourage you to strike this entirely. Forum administration can be trusted to handle people who try to hide making multiple accounts or use proxies; the delegate and forum administration can handle people who want a separate ambassador account to their lazarus citizen account; and lying about who you are and where you've been can be handled by fraud as needed. Quote:Section 11. Vexatious Behavior I changed the name to make it flow better, but this is another one I encourage you to drop. As of now, the court doesn't handle criminal cases, so someone being vexatious really only bugs the court. They're not causing a problem for another citizen. The court is capable of handling annoying behavior; if someone is bringing review after review, the court can simply say "no". And if we also allow the court to define and punish contempt without requiring a trial, the court can deem filing reviews in bad faith to constitute contempt. Besides, as has been pointed out, having this on the books opens a court up to back and forth accusations of retaliation. It's just not a good idea. Please remove. Quote:Section 12. Defamation This is another one that I really don't think needs to be separate from fraud. Lying about a person is still lying and can still be treated the same way. At most, I could probably be convinced to get behind one crime labeled fraud, with subsections for different kinds. "Regular fraud is lying, defamation is lying about a person, election fraud is lying about elections, perjury is lying to the court" etc. But there's just no need to have all of these be slightly different crimes with different punishments - particularly because if you've committed defamation you've *also* committed fraud. The one contains the other already. Quote:Section 13. Conspiracy I think this is a better definition and I'm fine with keeping it. Finally, I think we should add a general misconduct crime. As it is, a government official who just doesn't do their job, or who abuses their power but not in one of the ways listed here, hasn't committed a crime. It's good to have a catch-all crime that can handle such issues. I suggest something like the following: Quote:Section Whatever: Misconduct (Specifically I would insert it before Conspiracy because I like having conspiracy last for some reason, but I'm not strongly committed to where.) RE: [Discussion] Criminal Code Act (September 2018) - Roavin - 09-05-2018 With regard to Contempt of Court: If the Court compels testimony or evidence, not following that must have a penalty otherwise there's no point to the Court being able to compel testimony or evidence. |