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+---- Thread: [Proposal] Criminal Procedures Act (/showthread.php?tid=138)
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - Milograd - 07-30-2018
First, I want to note that I intend to abstain on the majority of votes moving forward. Even if they involve my own ideas. I do not have a nation in Lazarus, and simply wish to provide my input on things. So I will do so.
Idea: For civil disputes, we determine two judges from a pool of available volunteers by lottery. The two judges have three days to reach consensus about an outcome.
If they do not agree on every detail after three days, a coin is flipped, and the winner of the coin flip gets to decide the outcome without input from the other judge. The community can vote to overturn the decision made by a single judge with a 60% vote, and the decision of two judges with a 75% vote. Or something.
I think this would be much more entertaining than an actual court system. Furthermore, writing a law that maximizes the feasibility and merit of such an unusual system would be a rewarding challenge.
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Additionally, I do not believe that crimes like conspiracy/attempting to coup/raiding Lazarene colonies/espionage should be a crime. I say this not in my own self-interest (I have no stake in the game), but because I think it'd help us retain high-quality players, maintain goodwill in the community, and keep things spicy. Instead, discipline should only involve preventing offenders from repeating their actions. So if someone is caught sharing private intelligence, for instance, they should be allowed to remain a Lazarene, but be stripped of their access to classified forums.
If they still want to contribute in a community where everyone is salty at them, then they should be allowed to look pathetic doing so. On the other hand, if there isn't a ton of salt in their direction ... then they shouldn't be banned to begin with. No?
Try to tart your way to the delegacy? You get a lower endocap.
Try to give away intel? You don't get access anymore.
Try to rig a vote? You lose your voting privileges.
Of course, we can also go with this thread's original proposal. It doesn't sound as fun to me, but then again "fun" isn't what most people look for in a judicial system.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - McChimp - 07-30-2018
I could always introduce trial by combat in a video game selected by the judges, too.
Isn't there something to be said for not letting known traitors kick around? Besides, if they've already broken one endocap why would they pay attention to a lower one?
I'd be prepared to accept allowing them some kind of legacy masking allowing them to continue to converse with the community.
If you'd like penalties to be like that, you could propose a criminal code including them.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - Cormac - 07-30-2018
This seems like a good time to point out that we already have a flexible system in which the Delegate and the CLS can decide penalties for disruption of the community, and if 3/4 of the Assembly finds those penalties too harsh, it can overturn them.
The system we already have in place is far preferable to a rigid system of strictly defined crimes and penalties. A system that never works out well in any Feeder or Sinker. Feeder and Sinker courts are dysfunctional hot messes when it comes to criminal trials.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - McChimp - 07-30-2018
(07-30-2018, 06:22 PM)Cormac Wrote: This seems like a good time to point out that we already have a flexible system in which the Delegate and the CLS can decide penalties for disruption of the community, and if 3/4 of the Assembly finds those penalties too harsh, it can overturn them.
The system we already have in place is far preferable to a rigid system of strictly defined crimes and penalties. A system that never works out well in any Feeder or Sinker. Feeder and Sinker courts are dysfunctional hot messes when it comes to criminal trials.
The unique feature of an NS region as opposed to any other online community is the realistic political system in which players can participate. We could replace the constitution, the Assembly and the court with a single administrator and the mods he/she selects. That would be efficient and effective. It would also be dead boring.
In the spirit of Lazarus being distinguishable from a minecraft server, each citizen must be able to pursue justice for criminal offences in a similar manner to how they would IRL. The role of the CLS should be limited to the requirements imposed by game mechanics as much as possible.
At the very least this bill will prove that the Assembly is able to democratically challenge a major feature of the constitution, which was undemocratically imposed. It shall be a test of the kind of region that is being built here.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - Devi - 07-30-2018
(07-30-2018, 03:07 PM)McChimp Wrote: Isn't there something to be said for not letting known traitors kick around? Besides, if they've already broken one endocap why would they pay attention to a lower one?
To an extent. It really depends on the nature and context of the treason, not to mention the motives behind it.
As for breaking endocaps, it's pretty much common sense that punishments for violations grow stronger in repeat offenses.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - McChimp - 07-30-2018
(07-30-2018, 09:31 PM)Devi Wrote:(07-30-2018, 03:07 PM)McChimp Wrote: Isn't there something to be said for not letting known traitors kick around? Besides, if they've already broken one endocap why would they pay attention to a lower one?
To an extent. It really depends on the nature and context of the treason, not to mention the motives behind it.
As for breaking endocaps, it's pretty much common sense that punishments for violations grow stronger in repeat offenses.
That works, I suppose. Either way it's a thing for the Criminal Code to decide, not this.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - Milograd - 07-30-2018
(07-30-2018, 06:22 PM)Cormac Wrote: This seems like a good time to point out that we already have a flexible system in which the Delegate and the CLS can decide penalties for disruption of the community, and if 3/4 of the Assembly finds those penalties too harsh, it can overturn them.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I still haven't read the laws, since I've been abstaining. I wrongly assumed that nothing involving justice had been decided yet.
(07-30-2018, 09:42 PM)McChimp Wrote:(07-30-2018, 09:31 PM)Devi Wrote:(07-30-2018, 03:07 PM)McChimp Wrote: Isn't there something to be said for not letting known traitors kick around? Besides, if they've already broken one endocap why would they pay attention to a lower one?
To an extent. It really depends on the nature and context of the treason, not to mention the motives behind it.
As for breaking endocaps, it's pretty much common sense that punishments for violations grow stronger in repeat offenses.
That works, I suppose. Either way it's a thing for the Criminal Code to decide, not this.
I see. I apologize for veering the conversation off-course. It's been a while since I participated in an assembly.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - Sheepshape - 08-02-2018
Typo:
Quote:c. Rehearings shall be conducted publicly unless the Justices serving on them determine that their contents is are sensitive by majority vote.
I don't really have any additional feedback that I haven't already given. I do not believe I can vote in favor, though, as long as it remains a "constitutional law". I feel strongly that that status is not necessary.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - McChimp - 08-02-2018
Alright, then.
l motion to vote.
RE: Criminal Procedures Act - Cormac - 08-02-2018
Seconded.