Discussion Lazarene Space Theme Act (2021)

[Apatosaurus]

*noms popcorn*
So... I think this might be an interesting idea for a theme. I put this together in a hurry at 8 pm so there's probably going to be a lot of things to change

I've tried to make sure this doesn't imitate the CU too much, since obviously this should not be a successor to the CU. Suggestions definitly appreciated.

Credit to @New Rogernomics for helping a bit with this, and I stole a lot of the ideas for writing from the current Lazarene Corporation Theme Act

Lazarene Space Theme Act (2021)

Proposed by: @Apatosaurus​

Preamble

This law shall define the regional theme and alternate titles within the region.

Section 1. Alternative titles

(1) The alternative title of Citizen shall be "Passenger", and the Assembly of Lazarus shall have the alternative title of "The Passengers of Lazarus".
(2) The alternative title of the Delegate of Lazarus shall be "Pilot", and the alternative title of the Vice Delegate of Lazarus shall be "Co-pilot".
(3) The "Passenger Manager" shall be the alternative title of the Speaker of Lazarus.
(4) The alternative title of the Prime Minister of Lazarus shall be "Captain".
(5) The "Crew" shall be the alternative title of the Cabinet of Lazarus, and "Officer" shall be the alternative title of a Minister.
(6) The "Inquisition" shall be the alternative title of the Court of Lazarus, and "Inquisitors" shall be the alternative title of Court Justices of Lazarus.
(7) The "Space Corps" shall be the alternative title of the Council on Lazarene Security, and "Space Corp" shall be the alternative title for Councillors of Regional Security.
(8) The alternative name of Lazarus shall be "The Lazarene Spaceship".

Section 2. On usage of alternative titles
(1) Alternative titles should be regarded purely as regional culture and law, and should not be used in treaties or official laws.

Section 3. On past themes
(1) The Lazarene Corporation Act of 2020 is hereby repealed.

 

[Apatosaurus]

Reserved

Spoiler

Lazarene Space Theme Act (2021)

Proposed by: @Apatosaurus​

Preamble

This law shall define the regional theme and alternate titles within the region.

Section 1. Alternative titles

(1) The alternative title of Citizen shall be "Passenger", and the Assembly of Lazarus shall have the alternative title of "The Passengers of Lazarus".
(2) The alternative title of the Delegate of Lazarus shall be "Pilot", and the alternative title of the Vice Delegate of Lazarus shall be "Co-pilot".
(3) The "Passenger Manager" shall be the alternative title of the Speaker of Lazarus.
(4) The alternative title of the Prime Minister of Lazarus shall be "Captain".
(5) The "Crew" shall be the alternative title of the Cabinet of Lazarus, and "Officer" shall be the alternative title of a Minister.
(6) The "Inquisition" shall be the alternative title of the Court of Lazarus, and "Inquisitors" shall be the alternative title of Court Justices of Lazarus.
(7) The "Space Corps" shall be the alternative title of the Council on Lazarene Security, and "Space Corp" shall be the alternative title for Councillors of Regional Security.
(8) The alternative name of Lazarus shall be "The Lazarene Spaceship".

Section 2. On usage of alternative titles
(1) Alternative titles should be regarded purely as regional culture and law, and should not be used in treaties or official laws.

Section 3. On past themes
(1) The Lazarene Corporation Act of 2020 is hereby repealed.

 

[Constie]

It would be cool to give the Officers if the Cabinet ranks, like a starfleet ship. Captain, the Deputy is Commander, the cabinet are Lieutenant Commanders, and that could filter out to the civil service.

This means that, the delegate and vice delegate would be Admiral and Vice Admiral, respectively.

 

[Apatosaurus]

It would be cool to give the Officers if the Cabinet ranks, like a starfleet ship. Captain, the Deputy is Commander, the cabinet are Lieutenant Commanders, and that could filter out to the civil service.

This means that, the delegate and vice delegate would be Admiral and Vice Admiral, respectively.

I think Delegate and VD would work best as Pilot and Co-Pilot, because that's more realistic imo.

As to "ranks", that's an interesting idea, though I'm not sure if it's really worth the trouble? To be honest, "Lieutenant Commander Domais, Officer of Immigration" would sound so weird and long. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea, though.

 

[Constie]

I think Delegate and VD would work best as Pilot and Co-Pilot, because that's more realistic imo.

As to "ranks", that's an interesting idea, though I'm not sure if it's really worth the trouble? To be honest, "Lieutenant Commander Domais, Officer of Immigration" would sound so weird and long. I'm not entirely opposed to the idea, though.

It might cause confusion because Pilots are Captains, and you have that name set for the PM

 

[Frankender]

I love the idea, & Constie’s suggestions once we kink out the titles

 

[Chanku]

I think there's too much risk, and there's too much space. So for that reason, I'm out.

 

[Frankender]

I think there's too much risk, and there's too much space. So for that reason, I'm out.

Risk in what?

 

[Clorinda]

I think there's too much risk, and there's too much space. So for that reason, I'm out.

I’m also against a space theme, if we do anything out of the ordinary (not reviving an undead or emerald theme) I’d like to go for Vatican theme or something we’ve never done before.

EDIT: I would be for re-establishing the “Emerald Kingdom” theme but I’ll not put anything to that nature forward unless the region saw a need for it.

 

[joWhatup]

I'm not particularly intrigued by the theme itself, I must say, and honestly, we get stuck on the theme a lot, so unless we find something that really inspires or affords us a lot of options to theme things after I'm hesitant to support theme changes.

 

[McChimp]

Against. Abandoning our regional identity will not build regional identity.

 

[Domais]

I don't understand this war against LazCorp. It has worked for us so why change. People we are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. If we want to increase regional engagement then, I don't know, send recruitment telegrams to get new and active people?

 

[Frankender]

Against. Abandoning our regional identity will not build regional identity.

This literally builds a new regional identity into being a spaceship theme.

I don't understand this war against LazCorp. It has worked for us so why change. People we are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. If we want to increase regional engagement then, I don't know, send recruitment telegrams to get new and active people?

In this poll 12/16 (62.5%) of citizens were for changing to a theme other than LazCorp: https://nslazarus.com/forum/index.php?threads/3425/

In this poll 6/9 (66.6%) of citizens were for changing to a theme other than LazCorp: https://nslazarus.com/forum/index.php?threads/3457/

In this poll 5/10 (50%) of citizens were for changing to a theme other than LazCorp: https://nslazarus.com/forum/index.php?threads/3493/

Finally, instead of voting this this final theme versus LazCorp again to break such tiebreaker, we held a vote to:
A. Keep LazCorp
B. Have no theme
There were only 8 voters. https://nslazarus.com/forum/index.php?threads/3496/


Interesting, right? I wonder why we dropped from 16 voters to 8.

Sounds to me like our theme is boring and is due for change. Can anyone qualify any argument against the spaceship theme?

 

[New Rogernomics]

I don't think in-game will buy "passenger" really, in a nation-simulator, maybe less so than shareholder, as at least you can argue in a modern-tech or sci-fi setting that nations can be shareholders in a mega-corp. The CU at least had member worlds that were basically nations, which was more in line with the sort of game that Nationstates is, so I'd argue that it is better than this or LazCorp in that respect.

Sort of has the same issue LazCorp has as far as the "shareholder" being not equivalent to a nation-state as such.

You could try it, though I think that folks could be confused by the concept of being on a single spaceship versus having whole fleets of spaceships, with planets around that theme. I can see this as being the real stumbling block with the concept.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Finally, instead of voting this this final theme versus LazCorp again to break such tiebreaker, we held a vote to:
A. Keep LazCorp
B. Have no theme
There were only 8 voters. https://nslazarus.com/forum/index.php?threads/3496/

I don't think you can invalidate a poll by arguing it had one less voter than another poll, so that sounds a bit silly to me. Not to mention on the final poll before that there was a 50% split between something already voted on and in force versus something that wasn't.

How polls work is that you don't vote twice on the same thing when folks have already spoken on it, as that is basically polling again, and again, till you get the result you want, and not a fair poll - it would be basically rigging it against LazCorp, if you remove it from the last poll even though it had 50% and the other option had 50%. We could poll again today of course, and see what folks think now, and that would be a fair poll, as it wouldn't be using an existing poll group to re-poll again and again to get a result that a pollster or particular voters wanted.

Though since we are discussing a space theme, the polls that count are more these ones:

• On the last poll before LazCorp vs Chinese Imperial, 66.6% did not vote for a space theme, compared to either keeping LazCorp or going in line with the HRL or a Chinese style theme.
• On the first poll, 75.2% also didn't vote for a space theme.

The take away from these polls in relation to a space theme, is that there are a large majority of people still to be convinced that this specific theme is the right one, and that a space theme should replace LazCorp.

 

[Frankender]

Not my point. My point was that LazCorp is unpopular, not that the space theme was.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Thanks for telling me how polls work. I am not going to rebut the majority of your essay; it seems you missed my main points.

However, this is an egregiously silly argument:

Yes, but 62.5% voted for a theme other than LazCorp. That is my point. I was not being a space theme apologist.

You are literally arguing we need a change of theme, and using that as data. If this is to be the theme it is changed to, then it isn't in line with the results of that set of poll data.

Assuming this is to go to vote at some stage, there would have to be more consensus for a change for this specific theme. I don't think this viewpoint is in any way controversial.

Now if a new poll were to be made either specifically referencing this sort of theme type as a possibility among space themes, that would be a fairer poll assessment. Though as it stands, a space theme in particular wasn't what most poll voters went for.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Not my point. My point was that LazCorp is unpopular, not that the space theme was.

I wouldn't describe it as unpopular, especially when it either tied with the other theme options in all polls, or was the tied with another top option. To be unpopular it would have had to have had far less support than it actually did in that poll data.

 

[Clorinda]

I wouldn't describe it as unpopular, especially when it either tied with the other theme options in all polls, or was the tied with another top option. To be unpopular it would have had to have had far less support than it actually did in that poll data.

To be fair, it is the current theme, that gives it an advantage in the polls.

 

[Frankender]

You are literally arguing we need a change of theme, and using that as data. If this is to be the theme it is changed to, then it isn't in line with the results of that set of poll data.

Assuming this is to go to vote at some stage, there would have to be more consensus for a change for this specific theme. I don't think this viewpoint is in any way controversial.

Now if a new poll were to be made either specifically referencing this sort of theme type as a possibility among space themes, that would be a fairer poll assessment. Though as it stands, a space theme in particular wasn't what most poll voters went for.

Hey, I’m sure you saw, but I deleted the other post you quoted before you posted because I thought my post came across as too brash.

Anyway, I agree with you, easiest solution is another poll: LazCorp vs this theme (not LazCorp vs 8 different other themes