Discussion Titles and their role

[Clorinda]

I was reading the forum when I decided to peruse one of the only legal topics I hadn’t read yet. The “Lazarene Awards and Honors Act” is a great idea in practice, but I feel like it is too broad. It allows for honorary titles to be awarded, but it doesn’t specify much after that. From what I’ve seen around here, I think it may be important to denote that noble titles cannot be awarded due to our current position as generally standing against imperialism as a whole, however say the theme were to ever change to another Emerald Kingdom theme, this could be an unnecessary amendment.

I guess I’d just like to hear the community’s thoughts on specifying in this amendment that noble titles aren’t allowed or cannot be handed out.

Thanks,

 

[New Rogernomics]

I was reading the forum when I decided to peruse one of the only legal topics I hadn’t read yet. The “Lazarene Awards and Honors Act” is a great idea in practice, but I feel like it is too broad. It allows for honorary titles to be awarded, but it doesn’t specify much after that. From what I’ve seen around here, I think it may be important to denote that noble titles cannot be awarded due to our current position as generally standing against imperialism as a whole, however say the theme were to ever change to another Emerald Kingdom theme, this could be an unnecessary amendment.

I guess I’d just like to hear the community’s thoughts on specifying in this amendment that noble titles aren’t allowed or cannot be handed out.

Thanks,

The Lazarene Awards and Honors Act dates back to the Humane Republic of Lazarus, where it was first passed as the Recognition and Honors Act, and was first used successfully to run an awards competition there, and give harmless awards to citizens. It has never had anything to do with imperialism. It is also nothing to do with providing "noble titles", but provides the Assembly the ability to propose and pass specific awards or honorary titles to citizens.

I'd give many charges against the HRL, but imperialism was not one of them. It was a defender region in the FRA, after all at the time it was originally passed.

Here is the original discussion from back then:

Lazarus-Draft: Recognition and Honors Act

The Humane Republic of Lazarus Recognition and Honors Act No. 4 of 2016 The Grand Assembly enacts: PART 1 — PRELIMINARY 1: Purposes The purposes of

www.tapatalk.com

I think it may be important to denote that noble titles cannot be awarded...

There is a world of difference from the wording "honorary titles", used for all kinds of official functions, including in an academic setting, and noble titles, which is not the wording used in the act. In this specific case honorary titles would refer to titles given by a government, forum administration, and the assembly in recognition of some valued service or some activity they did.

Here is how it is actually used: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nslazarus/award-nomination-for-new-rogernomics-t1200.html

Recognition and Honors Act Nomination​

The Grand Assembly nominates:

(1) New Rogernomics for Professionalism Commendation.

---

The Professionalism Commendation is awarded to those who have served the Grand Assembly and Lazarus with distinction. It really does go without saying that as an administrator, New Rogernomics is invaluable to the continuous functioning of this region. His improvements to this forum and what can only be considered as being a tireless dedication to the betterment of our community is deserving of recognition.

It was originally inspired from "the Lazies Awards", which I first held in 2015: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/nslazarus/viewtopic.php?p=17327#p17327
Plus I saw this at 2 AM so I might have been a bit more, "what is this talking about?" at that hour.

 

[Clorinda]

I understand how this act came to be and its point, I still firmly believe it’s too broad. It does not specify that say, the PM couldn’t award someone the title of “Count” or “Lord” and neglects to mention these titles are to be academic solely. I believe “honorary titles” would encompass noble titles in this context due to the fact that Laz is not a monarchist region.

 

[New Rogernomics]

I understand how this act came to be and its point, I still firmly believe it’s too broad. It does not specify that say, the PM couldn’t award someone the title of “Count” or “Lord” and neglects to mention these titles are to be academic solely. I believe “honorary titles” would encompass noble titles in this context due to the fact that Laz is not a monarchist region.

I don't see the issue, with Lord or Count, as the award could be called "Lord of Spam", it is purposely broad to alllow for that. If there is an amendment to he had, all you need to do is note/specify is that these are not be considered titles of nobility i.e. the original intent of the act was in the context of an award or honor, not granting someone a knighthood.

 

[Clorinda]

I don't see the issue, with Lord or Count, as the award could be called "Lord of Spam", it is purposely broad to alllow for that. If there is an amendment to he had, all you need to do is note/specify is that these are not be considered titles of nobility i.e. the original intent of the act was in the context of an award or honor, not granting someone a knighthood.

That’s exactly my point. Designating someone “Lord of Spam” is different from naming someone Lord of the Order of the Firebird or something.

 

[New Rogernomics]

That’s exactly my point. Designating someone “Lord of Spam” is different from naming someone Lord of the Order of the Firebird or something.

Maybe if we had folks trying to make it into titles of nobility, but it hasn't been used for that.

 

[New Rogernomics]

Also the PM and Forum Administration already decide what awards and honors are available, so the Assembly can't make someone a knight without the PM and/or a forum admin approving it to be an award or honor:

Section 2. Alteration of Awards and Honors

(1) Official awards and honors can be established, replaced, modified, or removed by:

a. The Minister appointed by the Prime Minister to be a granting official,
b. The Forum Administration team, where necessary or in-conjunction with granting officials.

So if there is to be a change, then you could just do it here:

(1) Official awards and honors to be granted shall consist of:

a. Honorary titles, excluding titles of nobility, given to a citizen,
b. Awards given to a citizen,
c. Donated gifts of monetary or other value given to a citizen.

Though, Lazarus is anti-imperialist in terms of R/D, as it is a neutral alignment, not anti-imperialist in terms of culture. Not that I would be a fan of an imperial theme.

 

[Clorinda]

1) Official awards and honors to be granted shall consist of:

a. Honorary titles, excluding hereditary and noble titles, given to a citizen,
b. Awards given to a citizen,
c. Donated gifts of monetary or other value given to a citizen.

Tweaked your post, it still sounds rough (what I proposed) but I’d like to stress that these titles cannot be inherited, passed down, or otherwise used as a ploy, etc.

 

[Domais]

Why do we need this?

 

[Clorinda]

Why do we need this?

I find it necessary that in regions based around the ideal of meritocracy that to avoid nepotism it’d simply be outright easier to eliminate imperial titles now than to do something to that extent when/if there’s public outcry.

 

[Domais]

I find it necessary that in regions based around the ideal of meritocracy that to avoid nepotism it’d simply be outright easier to eliminate imperial titles now than to do something to that extent when/if there’s public outcry.

What if we do an imperial or monarchist theme?

 

[Clorinda]

What if we do an imperial or monarchist theme?

I touched on that briefly in my other posts. However, I don’t see that happening anytime soon with the current government structure.

I suppose you could make use of the Assembly and follow its legislative purpose to repeal a hypothetical anti-nobility law.

But, either way if that’s too unpopular, I think not allowing hereditary titles would be an easy compromise.

 

[Deleted1]

Why do we need this?

This.

 

[Clorinda]

This.

So I suppose you guys wouldn’t be upset if a newer citizen like myself was granted a title that gives outsiders the illusion of them holding power.

 

[joWhatup]

How would we benefit from this? We aren't exactly handing out titles left and right. If outsiders are confused by our government structure, there's plenty of things to clarify.

This is dealing with a hypothetical that I think is unlikely to occur.

 

[Clorinda]

How would we benefit from this? We aren't exactly handing out titles left and right. If outsiders are confused by our government structure, there's plenty of things to clarify.

This is dealing with a hypothetical that I think is unlikely to occur.

You may be right but it’s better to be safe than sorry.

 

[New Rogernomics]

You may be right but it’s better to be safe than sorry.

Well, there could be an argument this is over-legislating, until we actually reach a point where a PM wanting to appoint Knights and Lords becomes an issue.

 

[Chanku]

Personally, I don't entirely see how hereditary titles would work in NS anyways, additionally I don't particularly think this is an issue or will be. Furthermore it would be questionable if nobility and hereditary titles would be legal under the current act as written, at least speaking off the cuff.

 

[Deleted1]

So I suppose you guys wouldn’t be upset if a newer citizen like myself was granted a title that gives outsiders the illusion of them holding power.

That never happens here.

 

[Clorinda]

That never happens here.

Perhaps not now, maybe in the future it could. If you’d like we can drop this until that comes up.