Repeal: “Condemn The Pacific” Discussion

[New Rogernomics]

Repeal: “Condemn The Pacific” Discussion

I've been reviewing the text of the repeal, it reads sort of problematic: https://www.nationstates.net/page=sc

We have our initial demands: https://nslazarus.com/showthread.php?tid=453&pid=4587#pid4587

Furthermore, we intend to take more aggressive action against the NPO unless the following demands are met:

• Permanent removal from office in the NPO of the leaders of the Lazarus Task Force, inclusive of Aleisyr, Pergamon, Svezjacael, Stujenske, and Feux
• Other suspicious or undesirable nations known to the NPO to be resident in Lazarus or any off-site property are to be immediately reported to Lazarene regional staff
• The NPO may not deploy operations within our borders, unless future Lazarene policy allows support of a legal delegacy transition
• An official apology from the NPO for its recently revealed offences against Lazarus and other regions

This is the current Delegate of The Pacific.

If I was to break this down and look through the arguments for inconsistencies:

Noting that while Feux and A mean old man did infiltrate Lazarus and Osiris through puppet nations, these nations were not "notable members of the New Pacific Order" at the time of said infiltration(s), nor were they members of the NPO at all during that time period;

Unlike what the text claims, Feux was a prominent member of the NPO as far as Lazarus is concerned, and there is clear historical justification to argue this given Feux was made a key member of the New Pacific Order delegation to the Constitutional Convention made to resolve the Lazarus situation post Imki coming into the Delegacy. It does not matter whether they were "notable" either, as that is still covered under abetting a crime through inaction.

I have just checked the wayback machine and the claim made is untrue that Feux was never a member of The Pacific prior to the alleged crimes.

We can infer from that alone that Feux was at least a resident in the NPO basically three months concurrently, if not a citizen of the NPO from 2014, and people could speculate on-wards from there.

You can see yourself here by looking in the 2014 snapshots: https://web.archive.org/web/20140401000000*/https://www.nationstates.net/nation=feux

Whether the NPO Wiki is accurate or not, this seems to contradict that as well, several times: https://wiki.npowned.net/view/History_of_the_New_Pacific_Order_in_NationStates

[...]The initial burst of activity had begun to taper off slightly again when it came to pass that A Mean Old Man and Feux ascended to the Senate. Shortly after this, Milograd followed after his coup of The South Pacific which had been themed on a socialist republic[10]. Milograd was not removed from the region despite claims of intent to punish him, but instead made the head of Foreign Affairs. Not long after this, he, too, joined Krulltopia's Senate.

[...]This left Feux, A Mean Old Man, Milograd, and Karpathos with a large amount of control of the Pacific Senate. None of them were considered for the position of Regent, however, that instead falling to Elegarth and Rothinzil. Both continued the trend of refusing to take the seat from Krulltopia, and his other options for succession were deemed unwelcome. The New Pacific Order by 2014 had become characterized by contributions from long-term members such as Aleisyr, Foreign Affairs moves by Elegarth, and ambitious seeking of the Delegacy by Feux. However, activity had begun to siphon away from The Pacific after Feux couped Lazarus and took control of the region from the Imperialists.

Going back to the text itself now...

Dismissing claims that these infiltrations constituted intelligence operations conducted by the NPO, due to a lack of evidence to demonstrate the NPO knew of these infiltrations while they were ongoing;

It does not matter for point of argument, whether the infiltration(s) occurred continuously, the fact that these infiltration(s) occurred at all seems to be problem here, so it seems a bit strange to argue here that this is a justification for a repeal, and further to somewhat muddy whether they occurred.

Acknowledging that Aleisyr and Pergamon, at the time the nations chiefly responsible for governing the Pacific, later became aware of these infiltrations but allowed these nations membership and advancement in the NPO, without informing either Lazarus or Osiris of the infiltrations, but that their reprehensible silence and inaction do not prove the aforementioned claims;

This passage seems a bit of a mess, as it is arguing simultaneously that the infiltration(s) may have occurred, but then goes on to argue that just because NPO did not take action against them does not mean they are liable for their actions. When those activities were covered up it was a crime in itself, and certainly Lazarus could hold the NPO accountable for not informing Lazarus of a clear violation of their sovereignty AKA abetting a crime through inaction. The NPO does not have to be guilty of the initial crime, it can still be liable on basis not informing relevant authorities.

The rest of it is irrelevant, at least as far as Lazarus is concerned, as Lazarus did not support the Nationstates "consensus" in foreign policy statements or by a vote of the assembly, that is argued exists in the text.

I could see an argument for Lazarus voting against not on basis of whether the NPO were adequately reformed/changed, but because of the nature/statements of the repeal text.

 

[Deleted1]

Let's vote against the proposal. The war is enough justification.