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Recognizing Hate Speech

  • Thread starter Thread starter Demonos
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users Tagged users None

Should the Assembly adopt laws recognizing hate speech that would be enforced with a banjection afte

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • No

    Votes: 8 80.0%

  • Total voters
    10
D

Demonos

Guest
n the real world, as well as in our simulated ones within Nationstates and Lazarus, there have been trends of intolerant movements led by individuals who target groups of people and incite violence or prejudicial treatment against them. Labels such as; religion, nationality, race, color, sexual orientation, gender identity, and language; are utilized to identify groups of people with the intention of abuse. Such speech, when left to continue without any type of check, can and has been the prerequisite action for further subsequent acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Deplorable acts that are the downfall of civilized societies. Hate speech destabilizes peace between nations. It grows like a cancer and fosters distrust and ill will between people.

The United Nations defines hate speech as, "any kind of communication in speech, writing or behaviour [sic], that attacks or uses pejorative or discriminatory language with reference to a person or a group on the basis of who they are, in other words, based on their religion, ethnicity, nationality, race, colour [sic], descent, gender or other identity factor."(1) Věra Jourová, VP of the European Commission for Values and Transparency said, "The spread of illegal hate speech online not only distresses the people it targets, it also affects those who speak up for freedom, tolerance and non-discrimination in our society."(2) As all communications of our community are done online, hate speech has an especially negative role affecting our Lazarene population. When individuals publish statements either on the RMB, offsite forum, or discord that are hate speech what can be done?

Are we a region that will condone this type of communication? Will we continue to do nothing while others utilize hate speech time and time again? The argument which arises from this discussion is what to do with nations who utilize hate speech as part of their RP. It can be argued that hate speech is an OOC problem to be handled by an NS moderator in the end. What if hate speech is an IC device? What happens when the mods continuously censure a nation and yet that nation does not change course but pursues their direction attacking others based on their identities?

[size=large]Freedom of speech is often thrown around wither to excuse this behavior or argue for inaction. Yet in real free societies, freedom of speech has its limitations. In the United States, Schenck v. United States, (3) argued that one can not go into a movie theater and yell, "fire!" Should one's speech in the US incite an action that would harm someone else, that statement is not protected free speech. When a "clear and present danger" exists, it can not be ignored that such speech is criminal. The Human Rights Act of 1998 in the United Kingdom specifically states that freedom of expression, "“may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society.”(4) In the German interpretation of free speech we find that the freedom of expression, "shall find [its] limits in the provisions of general laws"(5) and has found it in regards to individuals denying the holocaust or displaying nazi propaganda.(6) Such speech is implied hate speech even by German standards

In Lazarus, our freedom of speech is assumed and broadly interpreted because we bring our countrys' values along with us. Some of us here are from the US, the UK, Canada, the EU, etc. We often interpret our freedoms by bringing our real world values with us. The 12th Mandate falls short of enumerating our right to free expression. Nor does it reserve the adjudication and abridgment of the right to free expression. Therefore, it will shelter the prejudices of the few whose modus operandi is to spread discordance through divisive hate speech thus presenting a danger to our peace and harmony throughout our region.

We therefore recommend that the assembly adopt an amendment to the criminal code that forbids hate speech on the RMB, off-sight forum, and discord that will be enforced with an ejection and ban from Lazarus should action already have been taken by NS moderators to censure the hate speech of resident nations.

Sources

(1) pg.2, "UNITED NATIONS STRATEGY AND PLAN OF ACTION ON HATE SPEECH", https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreve...of Action on Hate Speech 18 June SYNOPSIS.pdf

(2) United Against Hate Speech on the Web: Where do we stand? - Speech by Commissioner Jourová at Conference with German Justice Minister Maas; https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/SPEECH_16_3188
[/size]

(3) Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919), https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/249us47[/size]

4) See Schedule 1, Art. 10, The Human Rights Act 1998, https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/42/schedule/1[/size]

(5) See. "Limits on Freedom of Expression: Germany" ; https://www.loc.gov/law/help/freedom-expression/germany.php

6) See "Holocaust Denial Laws and Other Legislation Criminalizing Promotion of Nazism; https://www.yadvashem.org/holocaust/holocaust-antisemitism/holocaust-denial-laws.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It can be argued that hate speech is an OOC problem to be handled by an NS moderator in the end.
 
Demonos;10716 said:
Schenck v. United States,
"During World War I, socialists Charles Schenck and Elizabeth Baer distributed leaflets declaring that the draft violated the Thirteenth Amendment prohibition against involuntary servitude. The leaflets urged the public to disobey the draft, but advised only peaceful action. Schenck was charged with conspiracy to violate the Espionage Act of 1917 by attempting to cause insubordination in the military and to obstruct recruitment. Schenck and Baer were convicted of violating this law and appealed on the grounds that the statute violated the First Amendment."
 
Nobody said that such incidents are to be left to the NS moderation alone. We have our own OOC administration who supersede all IC laws and this falls very much in their domain.

Against.
 
I agree with McChimp, but I also think that, given what led to this discussion, the administration should make a strong statement about what is allowed, what is not, and the punishments people can expect if they don't comply.
 
McChimp;10719 said:
Nobody said that such incidents are to be left to the NS moderation alone. We have our own OOC administration who supersede all IC laws and this falls very much in their domain.

Against.

So let me get this strait, you are against an
 
Apimenia;10718 said:
"During World War I, socialists Charles Schenck and Elizabeth Baer distributed leaflets declaring that the draft violated the Thirteenth Amendment prohibition against involuntary servitude. The leaflets urged the public to disobey the draft, but advised only peaceful action. Schenck was charged with conspiracy to violate the Espionage Act of 1917 by attempting to cause insubordination in the military and to obstruct recruitment. Schenck and Baer were convicted of violating this law and appealed on the grounds that the statute violated the First Amendment."
 
This should not be in the criminal code. The Administration alone can deal with such OOC matters. To codify hate speech into IC law means recognizing it as a legitimate crime worthy of the attention of Lazarene society. It should not even face our courts to begin with. Rather, it must be flushed away immediately, for it has no place in the NS universe we play.
 
Ryccia;10724 said:
This should not be in the criminal code. The Administration alone can deal with such OOC matters. To codify hate speech into IC law means recognizing it as a legitimate crime worthy of the attention of Lazarene society. It should not even face our courts to begin with. Rather, it must be flushed away immediately, for it has no place in the NS universe we play.

Then why is Loftegen 3 still here?
 
Demonos;10725 said:
Ryccia;10724 said:
This should not be in the criminal code. The Administration alone can deal with such OOC matters. To codify hate speech into IC law means recognizing it as a legitimate crime worthy of the attention of Lazarene society. It should not even face our courts to begin with. Rather, it must be flushed away immediately, for it has no place in the NS universe we play.

Then why is Loftegen 3 still here?

I have never heard of any region explicitly codifying hate speech into criminal law. If you feel it to be necessary, I would suggest making your case to the Administration. Acknowledging hate speech in IC law means that we acknowledge it as an IC offense which can be punished by IC methods, and thus it has a role (albeit negative) in IC society. I am not willing to have that. We don't prosecute sexual harassment or doxxing with IC laws, for example, the Administration is in charge of punishing such vile behaviour.
 
Demonos;10722 said:
So let me get this strait, you are against an

If you have a problem with the way our OOC administration has handled a problem then you should take that up with NR, not try and bring it into law.

If somebody presents a threat to the wellbeing of any player then that is not the province of the court. A responsible and trusted adult must decide.
 
I don't have anything to add except what was already eloquently said. Also against.

But I do have to address this one thing:

Demonos;10722 said:
So let me get this strait, you are against anlaw that recognizes hate speech?

This is a bad faith argument. What McChimp and others are saying is that there is a different route to deal with it. You're portraying it as them being fine with hate speech. That's frankly disgusting - this isn't a conversation about the nations within the lore of NationStates gameplay, this is a conversation about players participating in the game, on a meta level. Those are the areas of offsite administration and/or NS moderators, not a part of the lore of the game.
 
demonos;40628889 said:
CITIZENS OF LAZARUS.

THE DISCUSSION : "RECOGNIZING HATE SPEECH"

https://www.nslazarus.com/thread-1651.html

We would like your opinion regarding a proposal to recognize and enforce a law to end hate speech in Lazarus.


I'm weary of such a proposal tbh. While I would prefer people here in Lazarus wernt overtly Homophobic,Racist,Anti-Semetic, Anti-Southern, etcetera. I've also always been one for freedom of speech. To quote Voltaire "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it". If we criminalize hate speech then we run into the problem of defining what exactly is hate speech. This will open up another can of worms that I fear could easily devolve into a witch hunt. Which could permanently change the Lazarene community for the worse.

On the other note we have already closed the doors of Lazarus to the Facists. I'm not exactly sure of the exact reason why we did that, as I was not there at the time those laws were passed. But I can only imagine that facists general support of racism, totalitarianism, and worst of all genocide was likely to blame. (Plus it was probably a good PR move.) So we do already have a precident of Lazarus outlawing some types of offensive speech/imagery already. Making some broader anti hate speech laws more of a expansion of a existing tradition than the creation of a new one.

With these two things in mind I belive I shall remain neutral on this for the time being while I think things over.
 
Firmly against, think about if we pass a law banning hate speech, it opens the floodgates for further bans and limits on free speech. First they'll ban hate speech, then they'll broaden the definition of hate speach and eventually the freedom of speach that once existed will be non-existent.
 
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