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[Archive] Introductions

  • Thread starter Thread starter Penelope
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I can only speak for myself, but I don't think there's a great need to sift through everything that happened then. A lot of people fucked up. You thought you saw something bad happening and tried to stop it.
 
Arlo;4705 said:
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think there's a great need to sift through everything that happened then. A lot of people fucked up. You thought you saw something bad happening and tried to stop it.
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Eh, this would be a bit easier a perspective for some of us to come to, were he not busily shilling for the NPO under the current circumstances as well.

Roavin, my question for you is why we shouldn't recall you from office, given that you hid your identity as Curious Observations and your collaboration with the NPO. At a time when you were in a position of leadership in the South Pacific, you used an anonymous puppet to interfere in internal Lazarene affairs in violation of Lazarus' sovereignty, and to foment conflict that resulted in a civil war and abrupt, destructive regime change from which Lazarus is still recovering. After your manipulation of the resistance as Curious Observations, you and others (such as Tim) became extremely hostile and dismissive toward the resistance, treating them like n00bs who had no idea what they were doing, and distancing the South Pacific -- which was supposed to be Lazarus' ally -- from the resistance. Why should we trust you to remain on our judiciary? I know you're an OOC good guy, but IC you've been incredibly damaging to Lazarus.
 
Arlo;4705 said:
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think there's a great need to sift through everything that happened then. A lot of people fucked up. You thought you saw something bad happening and tried to stop it.
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Fair, but I think there are legitimate open questions to be asked, especially considering my current involvement in Lazarus.

For example, ...

Cormac;4710 said:
Arlo;4705 said:
I can only speak for myself, but I don't think there's a great need to sift through everything that happened then. A lot of people fucked up. You thought you saw something bad happening and tried to stop it.
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Whew. Let me try to unpack that into separate questions and statements, and address those piecewise.

You hid your identity as Curious Observations and collaborated with the NPO
Neither Curious Observations nor Roavin ever collaborated with NPO in 2017. I found out about Task Force Lazarus through the Miniluv article.

At a time when you were in a position of leadership in the South Pacific, you used an anonymous puppet to interfere in internal Lazarene affairs in violation of Lazarus' sovereignty
I did see a trend that seemed concerning, and putting together the data it was clear that the pattern of citizenship applications was unusual. I could have posted that as Lazarene Roavin, but I didn't for a few reasons. First, I had just become TSP's Prime Minister a few weeks earlier, and I didn't want TSP's response to anything to be tainted by my involvement. Second, I was First Warden of the Order of the Grey Wardens at the time, so basically the head guy of the leading Defender organization, while that organization was at its peak. The entire madness was already being pitted as a "raider vs defender" thing, and having The Defender of that time getting publicly involved would not have helped. And third, just as a supporting argument, I wasn't ever the most active in Lazarus anyway, so it would have once again been seen like me taking advantage of my citizenry in Laz to peddle in favor of TSP and/or TGW. This really, really was not my intent.

You fomented conflict that resulted in a civil war and abrupt, destructive regime change from which Lazarus is still recovering
I don't know how much of it was Curious Observation's doing, and particularly in light of Task Force Lazarus, I'm starting to think I had less of an impact than I felt guilty of. But nonetheless, despite my best intentions, I think overall I did more bad than good, and that is something I had felt guilty about ever since.

Afterwards, you and others (such as Tim) became extremely hostile and dismissive toward the resistance, treating them like n00bs who had no idea what they were doing
It's kinda ironic thinking afterwards. It was kinda true - Ike and Ark were leading figures, but unbeknownst to anybody else, Ark had other goals. While they were given lots of advice on how to do things better, few of those things were actually implemented. I maintain that Tim and I had many legitimate grievances with how the resistance ran things. Maybe we could have expressed it better, though I don't think I (for my part) overdid it too much.

You distanced the South Pacific -- which was supposed to be Lazarus' ally -- from the resistance
I don't think this is fair to say. TSP was the resistance's greatest ally, and TSP got much flak for it. By the time the resistance's efforts were beyond any reasonable hope and the resistance kept doing things that were, let's say, less than ideal, we began distancing ourselves somewhat. That was months later. And even then, TSP never recognized UDoL, and only actually parted ways formally with CU when Llamas/Maurizio as the exiled CU's head of government was found doing less than savory things to try to still win back Lazarus, earlier this year.

Why should we trust you to remain on our judiciary?
Dirty politics are separate from an impartial judiciary, I'd say. I can separate concerns, and in fact I showed it in Summer 2017. While I was involved in the Lazarus fight on the side of the resistance through TSP, I was also in TGW at the time. It would have been easy for me to order TGW to get involved in Lazarus as well (and even EW once said that this may have tipped the scales). However, I completely recused myself from both the discussion and the decision within TGW regarding its involvement in probably the most significant GP event of 2017, and they chose neutrality.

Nonetheless, you raised a valid point on Discord, and that is that my appointment was made without the full information, i.e. the knowledge of my alternate identity as Curious Observations. Therefore, this.
 
I don't think it's entirely fair to say he's shilling for the NPO. You've basically accused me of doing the same thing, because I was fairly nonchalant about the leaks and don't really support military action against them -- this accusation coming despite my consistent criticism of the NPO for years. Just because not everyone wants to back your plans Cormac, doesn't mean they're on the NPO's side.
 
Arlo;4728 said:
I don't think it's entirely fair to say he's shilling for the NPO. You've basically accused me of doing the same thing, because I was fairly nonchalant about the leaks and don't really support military action against them -- this accusation coming despite my consistent criticism of the NPO for years. Just because not everyone wants to back your plans Cormac, doesn't mean they're on the NPO's side.
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I don't recall ever accusing you of shilling for the NPO. Can you show me where that happened?

Listen, Roavin has been defending the NPO since this whole thing started. Anytime he has anything to say about the NPO situation on Discord it's either to defend the NPO or to argue against something being said by an opponent of the NPO. His harshest response to the NPO finally came in the form of a tepid "I can't defend this anymore" on the NSGP Discord server, but even after that he has defended them over certain matters and always finds himself in disagreement with their opponents over something. There's a difference between defending the NPO -- which he has repeatedly done in multiple venues -- and simply not wanting war with them. I don't consider the latter to be shilling for them, even if I disagree with it. But when someone is consistently defending the NPO, I'm going to call a spade a spade, and a shill a shill. Especially when the person in question is identified in leaked NPO logs as one of their assets.
 
You said:

"It's interesting to me that some of the people who claim to be defenders, like yourself and Roavin, are so nonchalant about this. I wonder what the NPO has to do that would have you folks not going for the "exaggerated yawn and slightly too emphatic meh" approach.

For as much as some taunted the IJCC for the "Defender-Francoist" stuff, there seems to be a little more truth to it than I think most realized.

And before anyone jumps in with this straw man: Yes, I know, #NotAllDefenders. But this behavior even from just a few is disturbing."

You can find the post here: https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=34957655#p34957655

I realise that isn't explicitly accusing us of anything, but I took it that way, and I do feel like it was intended that way.

However -- If what you're saying about what's been said on Discord is true, then fair enough.
 
I had genuinely forgotten about that post, because since then you've become more critical of the NPO. At the time your nonchalance seemed like it was part of the shilling that was going on elsewhere (on Discord) by Glen, Roavin, Altmoras, et al. The more we talked about it on Discord via Lazarus' server though, the more I could tell you weren't actually being a shill. That hasn't been the case with Roavin. Where you've actually been critical of the NPO, even though you don't support war, Roavin has been nothing but defensive with only the most tepid "I can't defend this anymore" -- before going on to defend them some more.
 
I don't feel too good about how this revelation validates a lot of the coupers' rhetoric regarding TSP subversion. This kind of dishonesty helped discredit what should have been a legitimate and meaningful resistance and didn't help when the whole thing began to spiral.
 
Wycliffe;4736 said:
I don't feel too good about how this revelation validates a lot of the coupers' rhetoric regarding TSP subversion. This kind of dishonesty helped discredit what should have been a legitimate and meaningful resistance and didn't help when the whole thing began to spiral.
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To be fair to TSP, the rest of the Cabinet was not made aware of this, and deliberately so. I wanted all entities I was otherwise involved with (so, at the time, TGW and TSP) to not be encumbered with that knowledge.

(Unfortunately, Altmoras and Jack are damn smart and figured it out pretty quickly, but that's a separate issue :P )
 
Greetings. My name is Alpha Wolf and I'm the founder of The Wolf Clan.Im happy to be here and looking forward to building relations.
 



Welcome to Lazarus, Alpha Wolf1!!

Congrats on joining the forums!
This allows you to more actively participate in community matters, including games, government and news media.​
Citizenship Form[/size]
Diplomatic Status/Visa Application[/size]

You are also encouraged to Join our Discord Server!

[size=medium]Also please read through the following to learn more about our region:

 
Hello fellow leaders of Lazarene nations.

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Leo, Imperator Konsul of the Leonistic Imperium (Leonism for short). I rule my nation since time immemorial (it was actually founded in 2003). After a lengthy spell of splendid isolation, Leonism re-joined the community of NationStates in November 2018 and has since remained in Lazarus. We feel at home here which is why Leonism is now applying for Lazarene citizenship.

All our prior NS history happened before 2006 and in regions long since abandoned, so despite running possibly one of the oldest NS states I can for all intents and purposes be regarded as a newbie player.

In RL I am a 34 year old anaesthesist and emergency physician from Germany. Besides gaming my other hobbies include flying single engine propeller aircraft as a hobby (I have a private pilot license) and sports shooting.

My intention as a citizen of Lazarus - should my application be accepted - is to actively help bolster the strength of this region against any and all foreign aggression. For this purpose I have liberally endorsed fellow nations of our region and would like to thank every one of you who endorsed me in return. I am generally also interested in fulfilling a more extensive role than an ordinary citizen, should my skills as a team leader be requested.

Thank you for listening to my introduction and have a nice day.

Imperator Konsul Leo I.
 
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Welcome to LazCorp, Leonism!

Congrats on joining the forums!
This allows you to more actively participate in community matters, including games, government and news media.​
Citizenship Form[/size]
Diplomatic Status/Visa Application[/size]

You are also encouraged to Join our Discord Server!

[size=medium]Also please read through the following to learn more about our region:

 
Wow, welcome to the forums. I want to learn how to fly some day when I grow up! Sounds very exciting. :)
 
Imaginary;5688 said:
Wow, welcome to the forums. I want to learn how to fly some day when I grow up! Sounds very exciting. :)
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Thank you for your warm welcome.

It is very exciting. Depending on your country of origin, it is already possible to learn it before coming of age (here the minimum age for getting the license is 17). The cheapest way to get started is usually by learning to fly sailplanes.
 
Hello, everyone!

It has taken me far too long to join this forum. I was on the previous one... and here I am now!

How's everyone doing?
 
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