Should an alignment be specified in the Constitution?

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Should an alignment be specified in the Constitution?
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 23 2015, 03:23 AM (700 Views)
Kazmr	Apr 23 2015, 03:23 AM Post #1
Lazarene Posts: 987 Group: Members Member #85 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral	The PRL was explicitly and constitutionally a defender region. Non defenders could join, but typically could not serve in the LLA. Do we want this to be the case in the new Lazarus? I lean in favor of yes. I think we built a strong defender tradition under the PRL, and I think now is the time to build on it. The entire defender community came together to liberate Lazarus with unprecedented results, and it would be a shame to move away from those who perhaps could be said to have been our biggest supporters.

Replies:
Benevolent Thomas	May 3 2015, 06:26 PM Post #31
Blessed of the Vale Posts: 1,532 Group: Members Member #63 Joined: Apr 14, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Nation in Lazarus Benevolent Thomas	Kaz's closing line was going to be this entire post. Damn ninjas...



Campinia	May 3 2015, 08:34 PM Post #32
Lazarene Posts: 585 Group: Members Member #12 Joined: Apr 8, 2015	I'll start calling you Blue



killer kitty	May 3 2015, 09:58 PM Post #33
THIS COLOR ANNOYS LAMB Posts: 367 Group: Administrator Member #114 Joined: Apr 23, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Nation in Lazarus Killer Kitty	Kazmr May 3 2015, 05:00 PM The poll demonstrates quite clearly that defender sentiment runs deep in the natives of the region, including plenty who were here before the days of the NPO. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but your justification for it looks a bit shoddy at this point. And you're also entitled to believe that a majority-view point justifies a suppression, perhaps violent should it come down to use of force, of the minority. I just think there is no place in a democracy for it. Just because the majority is Defender, doesn't mean there is no room for practicing raiders in Lazarus. That's not a Democracy, democracy isn't about suppressing every viewpoint that isn't the majority. Edited by killer kitty, May 3 2015, 09:59 PM.



Kazmr	May 3 2015, 10:02 PM Post #34
Lazarene Posts: 987 Group: Members Member #85 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral	It isn't just that the majority of the region is defender, Wolf, its that virtually ENTIRETY of the region favors a defender or neutral stance. Any actual shift towards a raider stance would clearly only come about from a substantial number moving into the region with the intent to move it that way. Such a measure, then, is to prevent that from happening. For someone who has consistently howled on about how that happened here, you don't seem to concerned about that fact when it runs the other way.



Deadeye Jack	May 3 2015, 10:09 PM Post #35
Lazarene Posts: 191 Group: Members Member #135 Joined: Apr 29, 2015	Quote: And you're also entitled to believe that a majority-view point justifies a suppression, perhaps violent should it come down to use of force, of the minority. I just think there is no place in a democracy for it. Just because the majority is Defender, doesn't mean there is no room for practicing raiders in Lazarus. That's not a Democracy, democracy isn't about suppressing every viewpoint that isn't the majority. I don't find this argument compelling. To be part of a region is to embark on a journey more or less in tune with the interests of the region and its government. Allowing raiders to practice their craft as an unsanctioned Lazarene army, makes no more sense than allowing a minority group within the region that is against the region's alliance with Region X, to have free reign to torpedo relations with Region X through unsanctioned diplomatic communications. Working so overtly against the regional and governmental interest should not be tolerated. In such a situation, if one is unhappy with the direction of the region then it's time to start being convincing and to get people to your view democratically. Edited by Deadeye Jack, May 3 2015, 10:10 PM.



killer kitty	May 3 2015, 11:38 PM Post #36
THIS COLOR ANNOYS LAMB Posts: 367 Group: Administrator Member #114 Joined: Apr 23, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Nation in Lazarus Killer Kitty	Kazmr May 3 2015, 10:02 PM Any actual shift towards a raider stance would clearly only come about from a substantial number moving into the region with the intent to move it that way. I am not, in any way, advocating for a Raider Lazarus. You're confusing my opposition and protest to a Defender Lazarus for advocating for a Raider Laz. That's a common Defender logical flaw. I'm not arguing for either, I just want to see a region where any ideology can flourish, rather than picking just one. My threat, which I think will more and more become a reality thanks to the inflammatory rhetoric Kaz and Funk have been spewing, of starting a Lazarus based raider group is purely to protest the idea that Lazarus should now, and forever, be Defender and nothing else. Now, do I think a raider group in Lazarus would be successful? Well, if it was, it would certainly contradict Kazmr's last poll. I have very little illusions that it would probably fail shortly after it's founding, but at least, for now, I have the freedom to do so. I fear that one day I will no longer have that freedom and no one will be able to have such ability, thanks to the tyranny placed upon Lazarus citizens. It is one thing to have a Defender Government. It is another to prohibit actions that do not agree with that Defender stance. That is what I am protesting, and I feel that any government on one side or the other, Raider or Defender, will ultimately seek to ban the other opposing ideology from the region. It happened in Defender TWP and TNP in 2005-2006, and it can happen in Lazarus now. Edited by killer kitty, May 3 2015, 11:48 PM.



The Church of Satan	May 4 2015, 11:05 AM Post #37
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	And nobody is saying people can't act of their own accord. If someone in Lazarus wants to raid, they can so long as they don't claim to on behalf of Lazarus. We never said that no one in Lazarus can raid, ever for all time as you say we have. That's a common flaw in raider logic. If you want to raid some region, go ahead and have fun with it. Just remember that Lazarus simply cannot support such an action. Edited by The Church of Satan, May 4 2015, 11:07 AM.



killer kitty	May 4 2015, 11:50 AM Post #38
THIS COLOR ANNOYS LAMB Posts: 367 Group: Administrator Member #114 Joined: Apr 23, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Nation in Lazarus Killer Kitty	The Church of Satan May 4 2015, 11:05 AM And nobody is saying people can't act of their own accord. If someone in Lazarus wants to raid, they can so long as they don't claim to on behalf of Lazarus. We never said that no one in Lazarus can raid, ever for all time as you say we have. That's a common flaw in raider logic. If you want to raid some region, go ahead and have fun with it. Just remember that Lazarus simply cannot support such an action. Kaz actually is suggesting that citizens shouldn't be able to raid from within Lazarus by banning independent Lazarus based R/D groups, which would then force people to join groups outside of Lazarus if they want to raid. I never said that we're banning people's ability to raid in general, CoS, but Kaz is suggesting that we ban a citizen from being able to raid based from Lazarus. If we do that, we will be the only GCR that has such a law. Edited by killer kitty, May 4 2015, 11:58 AM.



Funkadelia	May 4 2015, 03:08 PM Post #39
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	Your attempts are fear mongering are laughable. This is not a slippery slope. No one is seeking to exclude anyone from the region, but you are not welcome to raid on behalf of the region.



The Church of Satan	May 4 2015, 09:23 PM Post #40
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	Well Wolf, he may have suggested it, and to be honest I'd support that (so sue me, I don't care) but his proposed constitutional draft states that only members of the regional army (the LLA) would be prohibited from raiding. So if that draft were adopted as our constitution, you're in the clear since a raider such as yourself wouldn't join a defender army in the first place. How often do members of a defender army raid? I'd say practically never in my experience. So your concerns, quite honestly, simply don't apply because Kazmr hasn't even added such an exclusion of the citizens to his own draft. When somebody adds such a thing to their constitutional draft and proposes we adopt it, your concerns will be noted. Until then however you have nothing to worry about. We won't try and harm your rights to raid as fenda scum like us tend to do (oh wait, we don't) so rest easy little one. You'll be safe and sound from the big bad defenders.



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