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Chron
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Jul 27 2017, 08:11 AM
Post #51
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Lazarene
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- Lamb
- Jul 26 2017, 11:10 PM
- Kade W. Vasentius
- Jul 26 2017, 04:17 PM
- Lamb
- Jul 26 2017, 07:31 AM
What?
Sorry, meant to say "lore". Iirc we've had conflicts with lore and law in previous mandates.
I'm not sure that the lore/theme references in Funk's proposal is the equivalent of the convoluted mess and literal RP terminology rampant throughout our current Mandate. Regardless of the theme and the names, the language is pretty plainly written and isn't full of contradictions and ambiguous references to powers that are basically RP. The RP terminology are pretty easy to get lost in, especially for someone who wants to get involved in the region. The new mandate has a definite theme about it, but not these terms that are only used for the purposes of having RP elements in it. Which is another reason I'm behind it.
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Radicalitan
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Jul 27 2017, 10:41 AM
Post #52
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Just a guy
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Drall's is a pretty good draft (although I would change the proportion of supermajority from 60% to 2/3). However, I think that it doesn't go far enough in changing the current state of things, and thus, I believe that Funkadelia's is a preferable alternative.
Some observations, though:
- Preamble
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We recognize that it is of the utmost importance that Lazarus is protected from foreign influences and has a strong yet simple legal that cannot be manipulated so that we may establish permanent stability for the region. I agree with DYP that this is totally unneeded.
- S1.3
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The King shall have the sole authority to accept or deny citizenship applications. This authority may be temporarily transferred to someone else in anticipation of an absence. Again, I agree with DYP. It would be better if it was the King + 1 person (the Regent, maybe?).
- S2.7
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If the King does not appoint a successor before ceasing to exist, being deleted or otherwise going inactive, the Regent will ascend to the throne if the King does not return after a week. I suggest that the same rules that will be implemented for citizens losing their citizenship to also be valid for the King. There really is no reason for waiting a week after he CTEd.
- S4.6
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The Council of Rot may remove the King of the Undead from his office with an 80% majority vote. If the vote succeeds, the Regent will ascend to the throne.
This should certainly be a bit lower, imo. Question about something that will never happen: what if the Regent keeps appointing the previous King and everything ends up in a circle?
Overall, I stand closer to Funkadelia's draft, although I like both and there are a couple of flaws in it.
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Badger
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Jul 27 2017, 08:57 PM
Post #53
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Lazarene
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Disclaimer: While I have read both constitution drafts, I have read almost none of the comments that followed. I was derailed by Chron's comment "Calm your tits"...
Delegate being elected through democracy while a novel idea on paper (or on a computer screen) does nothing but create instability for a GCR.
While I find aspects of Drall's proposal solid, I feel that Funk's vision will lead the region forward in a positive manner. Personally, I loathe the undead theme and think it smells as bad as the dumpster fire on the GP forum; but that is personal preference I suppose.
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Deltariuns
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Jul 27 2017, 11:06 PM
Post #54
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I am up for a theme change, but this proposed undead theme has a stale and tacky vibe. I'd prefer for a theme update.
If a theme change is necessary, it should emphasize rebirth over rising from the dead.
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Chron
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Jul 28 2017, 12:09 AM
Post #55
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Lazarene
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- Badger
- Jul 27 2017, 08:57 PM
I was derailed by Chron's comment "Calm your tits"...
Happens to the best of us sometimes. :p
As for the theme, I don't think it's bad. I definitely don't "love" it, but I can't think of any other theme that might be better, so I think it's fine.
I've also heard that thing about how the King can be dethroned by the Council and then the Regent becomes the King, appoints the previous King as Regent and then it becomes a perpetual cycle that happens to the end of time, I guess, or until the Council decides its not worth it anymore. Yeah, I don't see this happening. It may be a thing that can be done in theory, but in practice it's probably not something you're going to see ever be done.
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Funkadelia
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Jul 28 2017, 03:30 AM
Post #56
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I have produced an edit of my proposal. I have taken some of the suggestions offered here and privately to me. I have made the following changes:
- Past history in the game is now required in citizenship applications.
- The Regent now has the authority to accept citizenship applications.
- Changed the name of the Council of Rot to the High Sepulchre.
- The minimum of members for the High Sepulchre has been changed to five including the Regent.
- A clause establishing the supremacy of this law over any others.
Constitution Constitution of the Undead Dominion of LazarusPreamble
The people of Lazarus, recognizing the necessity of a simple, functioning government to protect the undead and our black magic from the land of the living and the light, hereby establish the Undead Dominion to rule and govern the binding of all souls within this realm. We recognize that it is of the utmost importance that Lazarus is protected from foreign influences and has a strong yet simple legal that cannot be manipulated so that we may establish permanent stability for the region. Section 1: Citizenship
- Any nation may apply for citizenship on the Regional Forum by providing their current nation in the region, their current World Assembly nation, a brief history of their time in NationStates, and by swearing an Oath of Binding.
- The King and the Regent shall have the authority to accept or deny citizenship applications. This authority may be temporarily transferred to someone else in anticipation of an absence.
- The King shall have the sole authority to change the format of citizenship applications, as long as the format retains the aforementioned requirements.
- Citizens shall forfeit their citizenship if they renounce it, their nation in Lazarus ceases to exist or leaves the region, they do not post on the forum within 28 days, or if they are found guilty of a crime and punished with loss of citizenship.
Section 2: The King of the Undead
- The King of the Undead (The King) is Head of State and Head of Government. He is assisted by his chosen Regent. The King of the Undead is always permitted to surpass his endorsement cap, whereas the Regent may be granted that privilege by the King.
- The King of the Undead shall hold the position of delegate in-game. The King is responsible for maintaining order, enforcing justice, and ensuring the security of the region.
- The King of the Undead may determine the region’s endorsement cap. Nations may not exceed this cap unless they have been given explicit permission to do so by the King.
- The King of the Undead is permitted to appoint Vessels of Iniquity, who are tasked with gaining endorsements for the purposes of maintaining in-game security. The King is permitted to set a limit on the endorsements of Vessels of Iniquity.
- The King of the Undead is permitted to create positions that are not explicitly outlined in this document, however these positions must not contradict or overrule those outlined in this document.
- The King of the Undead is permitted to remove his Regent, the Necromancers, or any other government or military official from their office.
- The King of the Undead is appointed by his predecessor. If the King does not appoint a successor before ceasing to exist, being deleted or otherwise going inactive, the Regent will ascend to the throne if the King does not return after a week.
- The King of the Undead shall hold sole power regarding regional affairs, but the High Sepulchre has the power to remove the King from office.
Section 3: Unholy Cathedrals and Necromancers
- The various Unholy Cathedrals shall be defined by the King of the Undead. He may dissolve or create cathedrals as he sees fit, with the approval of the High Sepulchre.
- Each Cathedral will be headed by a Necromancer who shall be appointed by the King of the Undead.
- No Necromancers may be both a Necromancer and a member of the High Sepulchre simultaneously.
Section 4: The High Sepulchre
- The High Sepulchre is the legislative body of the Kingdom and is elected by all citizens once every four months with no term limits.
- If a member of the High Sepulchre loses citizenship, resigns, or has not posted on the forum for 28 days, the King of the Undead may remove them from the Council. A new Councillor will be elected amongst the citizens.
- The Regent shall serve as the Speaker of the High Sepulchre and will count as an automatic member of the council.
- The number of seats on the High Sepulchre will be decided by the King of the Undead, with a minimum of five, including the Regent’s seat.
- The High Sepulchre is permitted to create laws so long as they do not contradict or conflict with this document and the Edict of Lazarene Law and Order
- The High Sepulchre may remove the King of the Undead from his office with an 80% majority vote. If the vote succeeds, the Regent will ascend to the throne.
- The High Sepulchre may pass or amend regional law with a simple majority vote. The Edict of Lazarene Law and Order and this document may only be amended by a 66% majority vote.
Section 5: The Circle of Necromancers
- The Circle is composed of the Necromancers from the various cathedrals.
- The Circle is responsible for establishing and maintaining all internal regional directives and plans of action.
- The Circle shall be responsible for the approval of treaties proposed by the King of the Undead or any member of the Circle. Any treaty requires approval of over 50% of Necromancers as well as the approval of the King. Treaties approved by the Circle will be sent to the High Sepulchre for approval by a simple majority vote.
Section 6: Rights and Justice
- Citizens may be removed at the discretion of the King of the Undead if the King can legally justify such an action. All those whose citizenship has been revoked must immediately be informed of the reason for removal and has the right to appeal that decision to the Necromancer of Arbitration.
- Citizens have the right to a fair trial.
- Residents have freedom of speech so long as they do not violate standing Lazarus law. However, foreign entryists exploiting Lazarus’ freedoms for the sake of undermining the will of the undead will not be tolerated.
- Residents have the right to manage the internal affairs of their nations; the Dominion may not discriminate based on how a nation answers issues or customizes their fields. However, Nazism, Fascism, and hate speech will not be tolerated.
- Residents shall be permitted to participate in the Dominion as long as they are not deemed a threat to regional security, compliant with regional law, not an enemy of the state, and above the age of thirteen.
Section 7: Constitutional Amendments
- Section 6 of this document may only be added to. Section 7 may not be edited or revised.
- This document may only be repealed by unanimous vote of the citizens.
Section 8: The Forum
- The off-site forum shall be located at: http://nslazarus.com/archive/NSLazarus/index/
- Forum administration is separate from the affairs of government. Violations of site rules and the Zetaboards Terms of Service will be handled only by forum administration.
Section 9: Adopting Clauses
- This document shall be considered the supreme law of Lazarus. Any conflicts between this document and any other law shall be resolved by deferring to this document.
- Upon the passing of this document, the sitting WA delegate shall be named as King.
- Upon the passing of this document, the King may appoint the first High Sepulchre for the benefit of immediate action in the region.
- Upon the passing of this document, all citizens of the Celestial Union shall become citizens of the Undead Dominion.
Code of Laws Edict of Lazarene Law and Order
Preamble
This document serves to establish a simple and effective legal system for the Undead Dominion of Lazarus. It establishes the region’s laws, outlines the justice system, and establishes court procedures.
Laws and Penalties
Section I. In-Game Crimes In-game crimes are those committed physically on the NationStates region of Lazarus. The consequences of these crimes are determined by the King.
1.1 Nations may not recruit for other regions on the Regional Message Board. 1.2 Nations may not surpass the endorsement cap, or ask nations to unendorse the Skeleton King or the Regent, except for the King. 1.3 Nations in Lazarus must follow NationStates rules. 1.4 Nations may not promote fascism, nazism, or hate speech. 1.5 Nations may not undermine or seek to undermine the region’s security through in-game means. 1.6 Nations must type coherently on the Regional Message Board and must not annoy residents by way of rapidly posting or making disruptive comments. 1.7 Nations who are banned may not rejoin the region. If a nation is found to be a puppet of a banned nation, it will also be banned.
Section II. General Crimes General crimes are those committed anywhere in cyberspace. General crimes may also be committed in-game, and are not treated the same legally as in-game crimes. The penalties for general crimes, which must be applied by the court if guilt is found, shall accompany their definition. Interpretation of these crimes and penalties is to be done by determining what the law is meant to mean, rather than what it might technically mean. The law is meant to maintain order, not to be manipulated and exploited.
2.1 Treason: Treason shall be defined as attacking Lazarus and/or its government and/or plotting to do so. Treason is punishable by banishment from the region and forum. 2.2 Espionage: Espionage shall be defined as maintaining a presence in Lazarus and using that presence to gather sensitive or private information for distribution to foreign parties without proper authorization. Espionage is punishable by banishment from the region and forum. 2.3 Fraud: Fraud shall be defined as lying about or intentionally omitting information in an official statement that is relevant to regional security. Fraud is punishable by banishment from the region and forum. 2.4 Harassment: Harassment shall be defined as persistent, unwanted bothering of a fellow Lazarene. Harassment is punishable by a one month ban from the forum, and if the harassment took place in-game, a similar ban shall be levied in-game. 2.5 Conspiracy: Conspiracy shall be defined as aiding a plot to undermine the Undead Dominion of Lazarus or not reporting a plot that one is aware of. Conspiracy is punishable by banishment from the region and forum. 2.6 Subversive Activity: Subversive Activity is defined as belonging to an organization that the Circle of Necromancers declares subversive, working with nations that seek to subvert Lazarus, performing unauthorized actions that one could reasonably assume are capable of or intended to weaken Lazarus, acting in Lazarus for the sake of foreign interests, and/or being a proxy of a foreign power. Subversive Activity is punishable by banishment from the region and forum.
3. Severe Crimes Severe Crimes are crimes that are punishable by immediate action by the King or the Regent, and punishment for these crimes may be appealed by the affected party later.
3.1 Legal Violations: Violations of IRL laws pertinent to Lazarus and Nationstates (i.e. Hacking, DDOS, being a sex offender) are punishable by banishment from the region and forum. 3.2 Forum Crimes: Intentionally destroying forum content, pornspamming, and gorespamming are punishable by banishment from the region and forum. 3.3 Personal Crimes: Publishing sensitive real-life or contact information about Lazarenes is punishable by banishment from the region and forum.
Legal Procedure
One Necromancer shall handle the courts of Lazarus, serving as the court’s judge and jury.
1. For in-game crimes, the King shall be permitted to mete a punishment before a trial. If a nation chooses to appeal the decision, they shall be granted a trial before the Necromancer responsible for justice. They must explain why they deserve to return to Lazarus, and if the Necromancer agrees, they may reverse the King’s decision. The King is also permitted to provide his argument against a reversal. 2. For general crimes, any Lazarene may accuse another of committing a crime. To make such an accusation, they must clearly state who they are accusing, what crime they have allegedly committed, how their action constitutes said crime, and their evidence. The Necromancer of Arbitration will allow the accused to respond and will moderate a debate between only the involved parties, unless either party asks for a specific individual to testify, in which case the Necromancer may approve or deny that request. The debate shall last for three days. Once that time elapses, the case will be closed and the Necromancer will announce his decision in a timely manner, as well as a punishment to be executed by the King. 3. Severe Crimes shall be handled by both the King and forum administration.
Rules for General Crime accusations 1. A nation may not be accused of the same crime for the same action twice unless new evidence is discovered. 2. A nation may be accused of multiple crimes for the same action.
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Lamb
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Jul 28 2017, 03:46 AM
Post #57
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I think the implemented suggestions make a lot of things work better and I definitely like the name of the legislature better personally. It has a more dignified feel to it.
I'd like to motion to vote.
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Funkadelia
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Jul 28 2017, 03:48 AM
Post #58
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I second the motion.
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Drop Your Pants
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Jul 28 2017, 01:03 PM
Post #59
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🐑 Lazarse 🐑
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- Lamb
- Jul 28 2017, 03:46 AM
I think the implemented suggestions make a lot of things work better and I definitely like the name of the legislature better personally. It has a more dignified feel to it.
I'd like to motion to vote. Are you fucking kidding me? This is a big discussion, stop trying to rush it. 18 minutes is a tiny window for everyone to read the new draft and discuss it. Hell, I can't even read it properly now before work.
Edit: Also, no Convenor at the moment.
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Tawks
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Jul 28 2017, 04:37 PM
Post #60
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Lazarene
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- Drop Your Pants
- Jul 28 2017, 01:03 PM
- Lamb
- Jul 28 2017, 03:46 AM
I think the implemented suggestions make a lot of things work better and I definitely like the name of the legislature better personally. It has a more dignified feel to it.
I'd like to motion to vote.
Are you fucking kidding me? This is a big discussion, stop trying to rush it. 18 minutes is a tiny window for everyone to read the new draft and discuss it. Hell, I can't even read it properly now before work. Edit: Also, no Convenor at the moment. Sorry Funk, I'm gonna have to agree with DYP(Sorry if I got your name wrong) but this was very rushed and we need to wait until after elections. I also had some ideas I wanted to post, though I do not have a full draft I will post the very base bones of the gov't setup...
WAD-Soverign -Holds Overall Powers -Appoints some positions on Advice of the HoG and Approval of the senate
HoG-Head of Gov't -Elected every 4 months -Creates Executive Gov't
HoL-Head of Legislation -Head of Senate -Elected every 4 months
Senate-All Citizens -Senate elects HoG -Senate elects HoL -Senate votes on bills, votes counted on all whom voted, all votes MUST be public
The idea of this is a Stable WAD whom holds some power but not a lot, with democratic power to the people to control the gov't, of course Terms and titles and the like would be changed and again this is just an idea I will write out a full one soon to propose here.
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