[DISCUSSION] Powers of the Convenor

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[DISCUSSION] Powers of the Convenor
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 18 2017, 12:01 AM (277 Views)
Omega	Jul 18 2017, 12:01 AM Post #1
Star Lord Posts: 272 Group: Accused Member #192 Joined: Sep 12, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Omega Ambassador 1 Discord Omega	I would like us to begin a discussion about giving the convenor the power to delay a vote as long as the discussion on a proposal is ongoing. Under our current laws, a vote would have to begin in as few as 72 hours, little time for compromise, debating and redrafting of a proposal. Giving the convenor this power would ensure that the people have as much time as possible to fully discuss a proposal and make sure they know they are doing the best thing for Lazarus with any piece of legislation.



Lamb	Jul 18 2017, 12:03 AM Post #2
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	Seems unneeded. We already have a discussion period and a motion to vote, even though it can be done immediately after it, it doesn't have to and it historically hasn't always been done. I can refer you to the Security Act proposal in discussion right now. It was motioned to vote, I brought up some new discussion points, and the discussion continues. Allowing one person to delay a vote, potentially indefinitely, can allow them to compromise any sort of progress in the legislature. If you don't think we have a long enough discussion period, propose lengthening it.



Svez	Jul 18 2017, 12:09 AM Post #3
That One Guy Who Does Stuff Posts: 70 Group: Accused Member #191 Joined: Sep 10, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Rushian Kingdom Skype RockstarKCMO	Due to my position and the obvious relevance, I will observe debate and comment when directly addressed, but as I have just recalled my deputies due to whatever it happening, I do not plan to comment on my own accord about this discussion.



Omega	Jul 18 2017, 12:09 AM Post #4
Star Lord Posts: 272 Group: Accused Member #192 Joined: Sep 12, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Omega Ambassador 1 Discord Omega	Legally speaking as soon as a motion is made the convenor has 24 hours. All I want is for that requirement to be taken off the books. I'm drafting now. EDIT: here you go Legislative Procedures Act, Part 2 Section 5 (2) If a motion to vote is seconded, the Convenor shall schedule a vote on the proposal ~~no more than one day after the motion was seconded~~. Edited by Omega, Jul 18 2017, 12:12 AM.



Lamb	Jul 18 2017, 12:16 AM Post #5
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	Omega Jul 18 2017, 12:09 AM Legally speaking as soon as a motion is made the convenor has 24 hours. All I want is for that requirement to be taken off the books. I'm drafting now. EDIT: here you go Legislative Procedures Act, Part 2 Section 5 (2) If a motion to vote is seconded, the Convenor shall schedule a vote on the proposal ~~no more than one day after the motion was seconded~~. I don't understand why because of this clause is then put into effect: Quote: (6) If more than 48 hours have passed since a motion to vote has been seconded and no vote has been scheduled, the citizen who introduced the motion to vote may schedule a vote on the proposal. This means that if a Convenor doesn't do it within the timeframe, we're just going to have a bunch of citizens moderating votes or attempting to, when they don't have the appropriate moderation abilities on the forum. The part you're trying to remove kind of ensures that the person who is in charge of leadership in our legislature is active within it. Removing it gives them one less thing to be held accountable with and that probably shouldn't happen. Edited by Lamb, Jul 18 2017, 12:16 AM.



Omega	Jul 18 2017, 12:18 AM Post #6
Star Lord Posts: 272 Group: Accused Member #192 Joined: Sep 12, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Omega Ambassador 1 Discord Omega	Sorry here's my proposal: Legislative Procedures Act, Part 2 Section 5 (2) If a motion to vote is seconded, the Convenor shall schedule a vote on the proposal ~~no more than one day after the motion was seconded~~. (...) ~~(6) If more than 48 hours have passed since a motion to vote has been seconded and no vote has been scheduled, the citizen who introduced the motion to vote may schedule a vote on the proposal.~~ Edited by Omega, Jul 18 2017, 12:18 AM.



Lamb	Jul 18 2017, 12:19 AM Post #7
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	So now you're literally making it so only the Convenor can put something to vote, not taking into account when Convenors randomly go missing for long periods of time. I can't tell if you're purposefully trying to make it so our legislature doesn't work or if you're just oblivious to the consequences of what you're proposing.



Omega	Jul 18 2017, 12:22 AM Post #8
Star Lord Posts: 272 Group: Accused Member #192 Joined: Sep 12, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Omega Ambassador 1 Discord Omega	I'm trying to give our legislature a presiding officer who can actually make sure people are able to speak on a proposal before it goes to a vote. That's what I'm trying to do. Now if you are interested in just ramming things through the legislature without proper debate than I understand your opposition but short of that I don't understand why you are trying to limit people's ability to debate.



Lamb	Jul 18 2017, 12:24 AM Post #9
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	I'm not even going to bother at this point because you along with the others are just opposing anything I say because of your salt. I've made the suggestion that we lengthen debate times. How you're addressing your concern is not the way to address it and is going to cause more problems than good. What is 'appropriate debate time'? That's the discussion that should be had, not giving an individual the power to completely cripple the proposal process and at the same time remove the ability to overcome that crippling when it occurs. I have only ever used the legal means to do anything in Lazarus and have always followed procedure. If you aren't comfortable with the procedure, change it in an appropriate way. This isn't an appropriate way. But again, it isn't about me, as much as you'd like it to be. Edited by Lamb, Jul 18 2017, 12:25 AM.



Doperland	Jul 18 2017, 12:29 AM Post #10
Everybody's favorite Dictatorship Posts: 214 Group: Accused Member #161 Joined: May 26, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Discord Necrocreature#5472	I will say, some things have different needs of debate time. Not everything needs a long debate time, others do. This leads to a need for someone who can control the debate length. Edited by Doperland, Jul 18 2017, 12:30 AM.



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