[PROPOSAL] Amendment to the Mandate

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[PROPOSAL] Amendment to the Mandate; Re: Powers of the Celestial Being
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 17 2017, 11:14 PM (601 Views)
Funkadelia	Jul 17 2017, 11:14 PM Post #1
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	My proposed amendments are as follows: Mandate Article IV Section 5 ELECTION OF THE SOVEREIGN AND DEFENDER OF THE REALM (3) The Cosmic Council shall, at the Renewal of the Universal Cycle, elect from amongst its membership, a nominee for Sovereign and a nominee for the Defender of the Realm. (4) The Celestial Being shall~~, at his discretion,~~ grant these nominees through blessing, power to form a government in his name and with his celestial authority. Mandate Article IV Section 5 ABSENCE OF THE SOVEREIGN (9) In the case of an absence of the Sovereign, by the loss of his blessing, resignation, or otherwise, the Defender of the Realm may receive the Celestial Being’s blessing~~, at his discretion,~~ to ascend to the Sovereign and govern in his name. Mandate Article IV Section 7 (7) The Celestial Being shall~~, at his discretion,~~ grant these nominees through blessing, power to adjudicate with his celestial authority. These amendments are a simple clarification of what most of us already knew to be true: that the Celestial Being is legally bound to obey the votes of the citizens in all elections, confirmations, etc. While I still maintain that this is the case regardless of the status of the above clauses, it would be better to remove them to clarify that the voice of the people is supreme. When we were establishing this mandate, a major concern that several of us had was limiting the power of the Celestial Being. We were assured by the authors that the CB would be almost exclusively a Roleplay based position, and I specifically asked whether the votes of the citizens would be able to be trumped by the Celestial Being, and I was told that that would not be the case. The best course of action is to amend the Mandate to fulfill that spirit, especially where the "discretion" clauses also directly contradict the far more forceful language used to tie the assent of the Celestial Being to electoral/voting results.

Replies:
Drall	Jul 18 2017, 02:21 AM Post #11
Wildly Popular Scoundrel Posts: 173 Group: Citizen Member #584 Joined: Apr 13, 2017 Political Views Capitalist Alignment Neutral Evil Nation in Lazarus The Sleeping	Completely for. The presence of the previous law is undemocratic and merely allows for a single individual to block the will of the people. There is no reason for it to be in place, and any opposition to it is clear support of a dictatorship. Edited by Drall, Jul 18 2017, 02:21 AM.



Harmoneia	Jul 18 2017, 02:26 AM Post #12
Mhysa Posts: 657 Group: Accused Member #42 Joined: Apr 11, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Harmoneia	Calling it a dictatorship (if you consider UK a doctatorship, sure) seems to me like putting up a strawman to mask what would otherwise be a mobocracy.



Drall	Jul 18 2017, 02:42 AM Post #13
Wildly Popular Scoundrel Posts: 173 Group: Citizen Member #584 Joined: Apr 13, 2017 Political Views Capitalist Alignment Neutral Evil Nation in Lazarus The Sleeping	Maybe you didn't notice the recently amendment proposed amendment that will put a stop to any potential "mobocracy". Leaving this in place though will insure continued abuse of power and oligarchy from an office never meant to regulate the desires of the majority of other Councillors.



Harmoneia	Jul 18 2017, 02:57 AM Post #14
Mhysa Posts: 657 Group: Accused Member #42 Joined: Apr 11, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Harmoneia	Will that one also apply ex post facto like this one is meant to do?



The13th	Jul 18 2017, 03:02 AM Post #15
Guy in the Public Eye Posts: 455 Group: Citizen Member #547 Joined: Mar 3, 2017 Political Views Independent Alignment Neutral Good Military Stance Neutral Nation in Lazarus Daybreak13	How about we propose an amendment that would force the Celestial Being to grant assent on votes/nominations in which the super-majority (75%) threshold is reached. Other than that, the CB has free will to grant or deny assent on votes/nominations. If the CB does not grant assent on a vote/nomination then the Council can propose and motion to vote a rebuttal against the CB's denial of assent. In one of the rebuttal or counter votes against the CB's wishes, a majority vote threshold (66%) would be needed to counter/ turn over the CB's denial of assent.



The13th	Jul 18 2017, 03:09 AM Post #16
Guy in the Public Eye Posts: 455 Group: Citizen Member #547 Joined: Mar 3, 2017 Political Views Independent Alignment Neutral Good Military Stance Neutral Nation in Lazarus Daybreak13	The13th Jul 18 2017, 03:02 AM How about we propose an amendment that would force the Celestial Being to grant assent on votes/nominations in which the super-majority (75%) threshold is reached. Other than that, the CB has free will to grant or deny assent on votes/nominations. If the CB does not grant assent on a vote/nomination then the Council can propose and motion to vote a rebuttal against the CB's denial of assent. In one of the rebuttal or counter votes against the CB's wishes, a majority vote threshold (66%) would be needed to counter/ turn over the CB's denial of assent. I was thinking- maybe a vote threshold of 70% ish would be needed to turn over the CB's wishes. Let me know what you all think about this!



Aumelodia	Jul 18 2017, 03:13 AM Post #17
🌺 His Divine Eminence Posts: 584 Group: Accused Member #495 Joined: Dec 20, 2016 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Aumelodia Discord Somyrion#8047	The Celestial Being is meant to be a figurehead for the region who makes sure the values of the Celestial Union are upheld. That means maintaining the sanctity of our governmental entities, including the Cosmic Council. I think we can all agree that the voter importation which happened on KK and CoS's votes were an attack upon the sanctity of the Council; we even have an amendment up to prevent it in the future. As Celestial Being, I felt it necessary to act this one and only one time to preserve the integrity of our Celestial Union. Had I not acted we would, through a failure of law, have a judiciary stacked by clearly rigged votes. A CB refusal of assent is not something to take lightly-- and I agree it should not be unoverturnable, I like The13th's idea-- but in emergency times it is an essential part of our checks and balances.



Doperland	Jul 18 2017, 03:41 AM Post #18
Everybody's favorite Dictatorship Posts: 214 Group: Accused Member #161 Joined: May 26, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Discord Necrocreature#5472	Personally, I have no issue with the CB having this power. But I agree with the 13th- it must be able to be overruled by the people. Whether it be by another vote or simple "if majority votes were 70% or higher CB cannot deny" However I do agree, when it was first made we were all told the CB was an RP position- clearly it's not. Edited by Doperland, Jul 18 2017, 03:43 AM.



Ike	Jul 18 2017, 03:47 AM Post #19
Minnowite Socialist Posts: 458 Group: Accused Member #43 Joined: Apr 11, 2015 Alignment Neutral Good Military Stance Defender Political Views Social Democrat Nation in Lazarus Ikania	The Celestial Being, in this troublesome time of people with shady motives trying to game the system and subvert our democracy with illegal import votes, has now become essential to the protection of our democracy. The argument for this amendment, and by extent for complete Council supremacy, is not in any way advocacy of democracy for the people of Lazarus, but is instead a vehicle to neutralize dissenting elements to the rule of a regime which seeks to cement its grip on power. I stand strongly opposed to this amendment, and encourage all Lazarenes to stand with us and do the same.



killer kitty	Jul 18 2017, 04:10 AM Post #20
THIS COLOR ANNOYS LAMB Posts: 367 Group: Administrator Member #114 Joined: Apr 23, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Nation in Lazarus Killer Kitty	Ark Jul 17 2017, 11:22 PM Proposing this at the same time as Aumelodia refuses to assent to your nomination of an LWUer as prelate... yeah, I'm not buying into this. 👎 I'm sorry. I've been in this region since 2005 and have been delegate of this region four times. If after all that, I'm just an "LWUer" to you, I can direct you to the nearest cliff you can jump off of. Seriously, what a pathetic sham.



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