[PROPOSAL] Amendment to the Mandate

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[PROPOSAL] Amendment to the Mandate; Re: Powers of the Celestial Being
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 17 2017, 11:14 PM (599 Views)
Funkadelia	Jul 17 2017, 11:14 PM Post #1
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	My proposed amendments are as follows: Mandate Article IV Section 5 ELECTION OF THE SOVEREIGN AND DEFENDER OF THE REALM (3) The Cosmic Council shall, at the Renewal of the Universal Cycle, elect from amongst its membership, a nominee for Sovereign and a nominee for the Defender of the Realm. (4) The Celestial Being shall~~, at his discretion,~~ grant these nominees through blessing, power to form a government in his name and with his celestial authority. Mandate Article IV Section 5 ABSENCE OF THE SOVEREIGN (9) In the case of an absence of the Sovereign, by the loss of his blessing, resignation, or otherwise, the Defender of the Realm may receive the Celestial Being’s blessing~~, at his discretion,~~ to ascend to the Sovereign and govern in his name. Mandate Article IV Section 7 (7) The Celestial Being shall~~, at his discretion,~~ grant these nominees through blessing, power to adjudicate with his celestial authority. These amendments are a simple clarification of what most of us already knew to be true: that the Celestial Being is legally bound to obey the votes of the citizens in all elections, confirmations, etc. While I still maintain that this is the case regardless of the status of the above clauses, it would be better to remove them to clarify that the voice of the people is supreme. When we were establishing this mandate, a major concern that several of us had was limiting the power of the Celestial Being. We were assured by the authors that the CB would be almost exclusively a Roleplay based position, and I specifically asked whether the votes of the citizens would be able to be trumped by the Celestial Being, and I was told that that would not be the case. The best course of action is to amend the Mandate to fulfill that spirit, especially where the "discretion" clauses also directly contradict the far more forceful language used to tie the assent of the Celestial Being to electoral/voting results.



Omega	Jul 17 2017, 11:20 PM Post #2
Star Lord Posts: 272 Group: Accused Member #192 Joined: Sep 12, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Omega Ambassador 1 Discord Omega	I believe those clauses provide a way for the Celestial Being to ensure the integrity of the government is not compromised by a potentially compromised vote. I'm opposed.



Ark	Jul 17 2017, 11:22 PM Post #3
Lazarene Posts: 42 Group: Accused Member #576 Joined: Mar 30, 2017 Political Views Independent Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral	Proposing this at the same time as Aumelodia refuses to assent to your nomination of an LWUer as prelate... yeah, I'm not buying into this. 👎



The Church of Satan	Jul 17 2017, 11:22 PM Post #4
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	I too am adamantly opposed to this miscarriage of justice and I will fight this corruption with all my might.



The13th	Jul 17 2017, 11:26 PM Post #5
Guy in the Public Eye Posts: 455 Group: Citizen Member #547 Joined: Mar 3, 2017 Political Views Independent Alignment Neutral Good Military Stance Neutral Nation in Lazarus Daybreak13	I am against this proposal- sorry Funkadelia. We need a system of checks and balances. I want the peoples voice to be supreme, but it just seems fine the way it is. "One change always leaves the way open for the establishment of others." Lol for all of you coup conspiracy people. Edited by The13th, Jul 17 2017, 11:27 PM.



Funkadelia	Jul 17 2017, 11:28 PM Post #6
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	The13th Jul 17 2017, 11:26 PM I am against this proposal- sorry Funkadelia. We need a system of checks and balances. I want the peoples voice to be supreme, but it just seems fine the way it is. I would disagree that it's fine. Because of this debacle, and the refusal of some to accept our election results, we are at an unsolvable impasse. There is no clear resolution to this unless one of two things happen: People realize that it is contradictory to the law to refuse to assent to a candidate confirmed by the citizens, or we make an amendment to clear up that dispute altogether. If we do neither, we are at a constitutional crisis that cannot be solved because the courts will remain vacant forever.



Svez	Jul 17 2017, 11:40 PM Post #7
That One Guy Who Does Stuff Posts: 70 Group: Accused Member #191 Joined: Sep 10, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Rushian Kingdom Skype RockstarKCMO	I'm not sure what I've missed while I was studying for the police academy exam, but removing the power of the Celestial Being's only position makes it a glorified "citizen of the season" position, which I'm against. Before you know it, convenor will be the manager of deputies, prelates will just review the history of legal things and only the council can determine legality of anything, people in charge of the LCA just push papers and write reports while the LCA itself runs under another department, and etc etc. Removing the power of one department is the dangerous domino effect that works against the democracy Lazarus stands for. And yes, while "at discretion" isn't democratic, it is how Lazarus functions, with an emergency power use. This position is essential, as it is, in the working of Lazarene governance. To strip that power of the Celestial Being is to consolidate power elsewhere, and such a legal means of creating another power dynamic in a grand democracy that i know and love is an abhorrent attack I myself will not support. The Celestial Being has its power because of what it does when it does it.



Lamb	Jul 17 2017, 11:48 PM Post #8
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	So what you're all proposing is that it is better for one individual to be capable of contradicting the votes of the entire Council, than it is to allow our legislature vote, enact, and appoint as it is entitled to? It sounds like you're all in favor of a dictatorship instead of a democracy. The CB's purpose is not to personally object in areas against the legislature. If you would like to consolidate this authority into one individual, that really says a lot about your perspective regarding what our government is supposed to be. This is clearly being proposed now because this is a time when this was made apparent. If the assent and blessing had been endorsed as a complete necessity and something that the CB could legally use to go against a vote, then this change would have been proposed long ago. I won't even go into the fact that we all have absolutely considered the Celestial Being as a position of formality and roleplay for the most part for the entirety of the time that this Mandate has existed. Most of your replies aren't surprising, given the constant disagreements and feuds that have been going on lately, but you should really take a step back and look at what you're saying. Edited by Lamb, Jul 17 2017, 11:50 PM.



Wintermoot	Jul 18 2017, 12:00 AM Post #9
Like Love At First Sight <3 Posts: 632 Group: Accused Member #11 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Wintermoot III	The purpose of the Cosmic Council is the represent the will of the people. The idea that the vote which the Celestial Being is objecting to represented the will of the people is laughable at best...a vote won by an effort to import people to vote for him, which was likely condoned if not outright conducted by the highest levels of this government. I agree that if proposed long ago this would have passed without controversy, but I also think that long ago nobody would have foreseen recent events or the need for the Celestial Being to assent to the integrity of a successful election. I can't vote for this at this time, because I think it's being proposed not to improve the integrity of our elections, but to further the political agenda of a particular group. Edited by Wintermoot, Jul 18 2017, 12:02 AM.



Harmoneia	Jul 18 2017, 02:18 AM Post #10
Mhysa Posts: 657 Group: Accused Member #42 Joined: Apr 11, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Harmoneia	And a democracy passes a law ex post facto?



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