Point of Order on Prelate Elections

Welcome to the forums of the Undead Dominion of Lazarus. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features

Pages:
1
2
3
…
6

Point of Order on Prelate Elections
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 15 2017, 07:36 PM (950 Views)
Aumelodia	Jul 15 2017, 07:36 PM Post #1
🌺 His Divine Eminence Posts: 584 Group: Accused Member #495 Joined: Dec 20, 2016 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Aumelodia Discord Somyrion#8047	Cathedral of the Stars Celestial Being I bring a point of order to the attention of the Convenor: regarding the recent votes on the elections of the Church of Satan and Killer Kitty. According to a ruling of the Celestial Inquisitorial Court, June 23, a prelate nomination taking place outside of the renewal of the Universal Cycle constitutes a Special Election. Therefore, a nomination taking place within the Renewal logically must be a regular election. The Elections Act specifies a rule on new citizens voting in elections: Elections Act 8) A citizen whose application was accepted during a regular or special election cycle is unable to cast a vote in said election. The votes on the Church of Satan and Killer Kitty were counted with the votes of citizens who were accepted during the voting period. I request the Convenor look into the validity of these recent votes. In addition, until this point of order shall be satisfied, and in order to uphold clearly mandated governance, I, Aumelodia, as the Divine Representative of the Order of Stars, do refuse my assent to the election of Killer Kitty as Prelate.

Replies:
Lamb	Jul 16 2017, 01:53 AM Post #11
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	The Church of Satan Jul 16 2017, 01:25 AM If (re)confirmations are elections then whether or not they are party to regular/special election cycles is irrelevant to this particular matter. They are still elections and thus subject to the same procedural rules as other elections. As a result Aumelodia is correct in his initial post. No, that isn't how it works. The amendment that specifies confirmation votes for Prelates separates it from the processes of a regular or special election cycle which the rest of the Elections Act then defines and details. The amendment on regarding voting restrictions for a citizen specifically targets the regular/special election cycles. A confirmation vote following a nomination is not described as a regular election cycle nor is it found in regards to a special election cycle. The amendment concerning the restriction to voting was passed well before we found the inconsistencies and ambiguity surrounding Prelates and their appointment processes. To fix this for the future, we either need to clearly define that a regular/special election cycle is meant to mean any process of appointment/electing an official and not just the processes of an election as defined in the Elections Act. Again, how the amendment was written was in a way to specifically target the citizen applicants during an election cycle and have them refrain from participating. It either needs rewritten or a clearly defined clause about what all is considered a regular/special election cycle needs written. Either way, as the law currently stands, confirmation votes as we have been applying them do not fall under a regular or special election cycle, whether or not you call them an election. Edited by Lamb, Jul 16 2017, 01:55 AM.



The Church of Satan	Jul 16 2017, 01:58 AM Post #12
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	If that's true then the only legal reference to (re)confirmations is that they exist. And there is no procedural law regarding them which would invalidate every (re)confirmation ever held which has widespread consequences to the region.



Funkadelia	Jul 16 2017, 02:04 AM Post #13
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	The Church of Satan Jul 16 2017, 01:58 AM If that's true then the only legal reference to (re)confirmations is that they exist. And there is no procedural law regarding them which would invalidate every (re)confirmation ever held which has widespread consequences to the region. What you're failing to understand is that Killer Kitty's specific nomination was caused by a vacancy in the court that prohibited it to operate. The timing that Amerion had to step down at the renewal of the cycle is irrelevant, the entire affair of that specific vote was handled by Tom as a conduit of Svez, the Convenor.



The Church of Satan	Jul 16 2017, 02:10 AM Post #14
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	That doesn't change the fact that there is no legally outlined procedure for the voting process of (re)confirmations.



Lamb	Jul 16 2017, 02:12 AM Post #15
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	The Church of Satan Jul 16 2017, 01:58 AM If that's true then the only legal reference to (re)confirmations is that they exist. And there is no procedural law regarding them which would invalidate every (re)confirmation ever held which has widespread consequences to the region. What are you talking about? Quote: (6) The Cosmic Council shall, at the Renewal of the Universal Cycle, elect from among its membership, Prelate-nominees. Then the clause in the Elections Act states the following: Quote: 3) In Regards to Prelates: In the clauses Article IV SS3E, and Article IV SS6 of the mandate, the term 'elect' shall be interpreted to mean a simple majority confirmation vote in the Cosmic Council. I'm not sure what you're not comprehending. Right there defines the procedure for Prelate nominees at the Renewal of the Universal Cycle (ie reconfirmation votes for existing Prelates). The point is that because it is defined as its own individual procedure for "electing" them via a confirmation vote, means it is not following the election cycle structure and therefore the amendment that is being referenced cannot apply. The defined composition for each election cycle is as follows: Quote: 4. The Composition of Elections 1) General Elections shall be composed as follows; A four (4) day standing period. A six (6) day campaigning period. A four (4) day voting period. 2) Special Elections shall be composed as follows; A two (2) day standing period. A three (3) day campaigning period. A two (2) day voting period. Neither of these are done for Prelates.



The Church of Satan	Jul 16 2017, 02:37 AM Post #16
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	And why aren't they? Because it's convenient? Why must confirmation votes be so separate from electoral processes?



Lamb	Jul 16 2017, 02:41 AM Post #17
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	The Church of Satan Jul 16 2017, 02:37 AM And why aren't they? Because it's convenient? Why must confirmation votes be so separate from electoral processes? I am very clearly quoting the law for you. Regular/General and special election cycles are clearly defined in the Elections Act as the following: Quote: 4. The Composition of Elections 1) General Elections shall be composed as follows; A four (4) day standing period. A six (6) day campaigning period. A four (4) day voting period. 2) Special Elections shall be composed as follows; A two (2) day standing period. A three (3) day campaigning period. A two (2) day voting period. Okay, next step. The clause that is being referenced specifically says that citizens who join during regular and special election cycles are unable to vote in said election. A Prelate is confirmed via a nomination then a vote in the Council. This is not a regular election cycle nor is it a special election cycle as detailed and defined above. This means what is being referenced cannot apply to it, as it specifically states it applies to that. It doesn't matter if it is still an election, the vote is not in either cycle. Now, I have suggested two ways already that we can change this via amendments. I suggest we focus on working on one instead of me just having to rehash the same truths over and over. It isn't convenient; it is the dang law buddy. Edited by Lamb, Jul 16 2017, 02:42 AM.



The Church of Satan	Jul 16 2017, 03:19 AM Post #18
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	Don't look down on me so condescendingly. I may have brain damage but I've still made it my business to interpret regional law as it was intended rather than as what's convenient. Sure my memory lapses every now and then but I know the law.



Lamb	Jul 16 2017, 03:23 AM Post #19
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	So we're in agreement then? Like, based on the law, we're both on the same page as far as this goes? I'm sorry if I'm coming across as condescending, but I did just have to explain the same thing three times so you can understand my frustration. Either way, as I said, we have two avenues we can take to fix this for the future. I can make a proposal tonight. Edited by Lamb, Jul 16 2017, 03:24 AM.



The13th	Jul 16 2017, 03:33 AM Post #20
Guy in the Public Eye Posts: 455 Group: Citizen Member #547 Joined: Mar 3, 2017 Political Views Independent Alignment Neutral Good Military Stance Neutral Nation in Lazarus Daybreak13	Whoah I missed a lot....



1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)


Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Cosmic Council Archive · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2
3
…
6