Point of Order on Prelate Elections

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Point of Order on Prelate Elections
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 15 2017, 07:36 PM (946 Views)
Aumelodia	Jul 15 2017, 07:36 PM Post #1
🌺 His Divine Eminence Posts: 584 Group: Accused Member #495 Joined: Dec 20, 2016 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Aumelodia Discord Somyrion#8047	Cathedral of the Stars Celestial Being I bring a point of order to the attention of the Convenor: regarding the recent votes on the elections of the Church of Satan and Killer Kitty. According to a ruling of the Celestial Inquisitorial Court, June 23, a prelate nomination taking place outside of the renewal of the Universal Cycle constitutes a Special Election. Therefore, a nomination taking place within the Renewal logically must be a regular election. The Elections Act specifies a rule on new citizens voting in elections: Elections Act 8) A citizen whose application was accepted during a regular or special election cycle is unable to cast a vote in said election. The votes on the Church of Satan and Killer Kitty were counted with the votes of citizens who were accepted during the voting period. I request the Convenor look into the validity of these recent votes. In addition, until this point of order shall be satisfied, and in order to uphold clearly mandated governance, I, Aumelodia, as the Divine Representative of the Order of Stars, do refuse my assent to the election of Killer Kitty as Prelate.



Lamb	Jul 15 2017, 07:40 PM Post #2
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	Quote: 3) In Regards to Prelates: In the clauses Article IV SS3E, and Article IV SS6 of the mandate, the term 'elect' shall be interpreted to mean a simple majority confirmation vote in the Cosmic Council. We just passed this recently. We defined that Prelates are not subject to regular elections nor are they subject to special election cycles during a vacancy. Prelates are nominated and confirmed, not elected by either cycle. That clause does not count towards the confirmation process, as it specifies the regular and special election cycles that are not held with that process. This is why we're amending the Legislative Procedures Act to cover the rest of proposals and confirmation votes like the ones we just had.



Aumelodia	Jul 15 2017, 07:44 PM Post #3
🌺 His Divine Eminence Posts: 584 Group: Accused Member #495 Joined: Dec 20, 2016 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Aumelodia Discord Somyrion#8047	Lamb Jul 15 2017, 07:40 PM Quote: 3) In Regards to Prelates: In the clauses Article IV SS3E, and Article IV SS6 of the mandate, the term 'elect' shall be interpreted to mean a simple majority confirmation vote in the Cosmic Council. We just passed this recently. We defined that Prelates are not subject to regular elections nor are they subject to special election cycles during a vacancy. Prelates are nominated and confirmed, not elected by either cycle. That clause does not count towards the confirmation process, as it specifies the regular and special election cycles that are not held with that process. This is why we're amending the Legislative Procedures Act to cover the rest of proposals and confirmation votes like the ones we just had. If that were the case then Funkadelia should not have been able to legally open votes on Omega's or Adytus's prelate confirmations. All that line means is that we don't go through standard election procedure (campaigns, etc.)



Lamb	Jul 15 2017, 07:55 PM Post #4
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	Incorrect. If we consider this an 'election', even though it is a nomination and confirmation procedure like our proposals, then it is still not abiding by what is defined as a regular election cycle nor a special election cycle. Additionally, Funk would still be valid as an Election Commissioner and capable of hosting the threads. Therefore, the clause you're referencing still doesn't apply as you say it does. Perhaps this is ambiguity we need to further define, but the entire point of the amendment we passed was to clarify the separation. Regardless, what you're proposing doesn't add up.



Aumelodia	Jul 15 2017, 08:00 PM Post #5
🌺 His Divine Eminence Posts: 584 Group: Accused Member #495 Joined: Dec 20, 2016 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Aumelodia Discord Somyrion#8047	You can't pick and choose what parts to count it as an election and what parts not to. If this is an election, as you seem to agree, then although the format as stated in the recent amendment is a simple nomination and confirmation, the vote still functions as an election, allowing Funk to run the votes and rendering the 5.8 clause relevant, because it applies to all elections. If this is not an election, and 5.8 does not apply, Funkadelia cannot legally put up the votes and they are still invalid.



Lamb	Jul 15 2017, 08:06 PM Post #6
Posts: 884 Group: Regent Member #387 Joined: Aug 7, 2016 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Anarchist Nation in Lazarus Scum	Okay let's run through this again. I concede that it is an election, but it is not party to the regular or special election cycles because the amendment clearly separates it from that. The clause that you are referencing specifically cites times when there is a regular or special election cycle. A regular or special election cycle is a set of procedures including standing times, campaigning, whatever. Since this 'election' has been separated from that process, the clause as it is written, does not apply to it in terms of citizenship voting. Again, the proposal we have in the Cosmic Council right now addresses that hole as well. Since this is technically an election I guess, Funk or any other election commissioner is still capable of moderating the votes and other processes, in this case it was a confirmation vote. Edited by Lamb, Jul 15 2017, 08:10 PM.



Funkadelia	Jul 15 2017, 08:14 PM Post #7
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	All current points notwithstanding, the Celestial Being is not constitutionally permitted to refuse to assent to any vote. Terminology such as "in accordance with" and "on the advice of" means that the Celestial Being is legally compelled to assent to these votes, because as we know the Celestial Being is meant to be a roleplay figurehead, not an executive actor. Additionally, the vote of Killer Kitty to Prelate was entirely held outside the realm of an election, and was handled entirely by the Convenor and/or their deputies. We have filled vacancies before, and this is the same procedure we took this time. Since our court is currently residing, once they appoint within themselves a Holy Prelate I implore you to submit a legal review into this.



Omega	Jul 15 2017, 08:46 PM Post #8
Star Lord Posts: 272 Group: Accused Member #192 Joined: Sep 12, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Omega Ambassador 1 Discord Omega	Seeing as how none of you are the Convenor, and thus can not make any determination's on points of order, perhaps we should wait for their ruling. Edit: also, strictly speaking, until someone has the ascent to judge, we can't judge. Just saying. Edited by Omega, Jul 15 2017, 08:48 PM.



Funkadelia	Jul 15 2017, 08:51 PM Post #9
Posts: 2,155 Group: King of the Undead Member #86 Joined: Apr 22, 2015 Alignment Chaotic Neutral Military Stance Raider Political Views Socialist Nation in Lazarus Funkadelia	Omega Jul 15 2017, 08:46 PM Seeing as how none of you are the Convenor, and thus can not make any determination's on points of order, perhaps we should wait for their ruling. Edit: also, strictly speaking, until someone has the ascent to judge, we can't judge. Just saying. Firstly, a point of order would perhaps make sense if we followed Robert's Rules of Order, but we don't, so this is not a determination for any one individual to make. As it has been pointed out, it's an invalid one. Secondly, the Celestial Being is compelled to assent to the votes of the council, which the Celestial Being has bizarrely not done here. So in reality we should have a full court residing in the bench at the moment because Aumelodia is not permitted to make that determination against a vote of the Council. Edited by Funkadelia, Jul 15 2017, 08:51 PM.



The Church of Satan	Jul 16 2017, 01:25 AM Post #10
I HAVE CHORTLES! Posts: 861 Group: Accused Member #7 Joined: Apr 8, 2015 Alignment Lawful Good Military Stance Neutral Political Views Independent Nation in Lazarus Lazarus CoS	If (re)confirmations are elections then whether or not they are party to regular/special election cycles is irrelevant to this particular matter. They are still elections and thus subject to the same procedural rules as other elections. As a result Aumelodia is correct in his initial post.



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